The Christadelphians claim the Holy Spirit is not a Person, when the Lord Jesus was baptised we see something interesting. We have Christ in the water, the heavens were opened “the Spirit of God” came down upon Jesus and we have a voice from heaven saying “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” there’s no mistake that the voice from heaven was God the Father.
But we have a classic view of the Trinity in this passage (1) Jesus Christ in the water (2) The Holy Spirit coming down as a dove (3) A voice from heaven which is God the Father. 3 distinct Persons are involved in Matthew 3:16-17.
The Christadephians would still reject this claiming this is not enough proof, ok let’s see if we have more evidence for the Personhood of the Holy Spirit? There are certain categories in which we can prove the Holy Spirit possesses Personhood.
The Holy Spirit shows the capability to know, think and understand, He searches all the deep things concerning God. The Holy Spirit is capable of knowing all the divine truth of the Godhead. This is a character trait of Personhood. Just as the Lord Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things concerning Him (John 14:26).
How can “energy” be grieved? It cannot because energy doesn’t have a capacity to feel emotions. Only a Person has the ability to be grieved, and if they experience grief they can also experience the capacity to love as well.
Lastly, He has the ability to decide and act according to His will. According to this verse in Corinthians the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts as He wills. Thereby, this shows the Spirit of God through His actions of giving is a Person.
These 3 passages show the Holy Spirit is possesses the ability of intelligence, the capacity of emotion feeling love and grief, and He can also give gifts according to His will. This are characteristics only a Person can have. The Holy Spirit is not some “force”, “energy” or power emanating from God.
1) God is weeding out His children from Satan’s children (Matthew 13)
It’s ironic that Matthew 13 is mentioned because it concerns the Gospel message, something the WMSCOG doesn’t teach. The chapter concerns the parable of the sower and the different soils and their reaction to the Gospel message. In the case of Raven I wonder which of these soils she identifies herself as and why?
2) Everything on earth that is made, is made to teach us what is in heaven. It is a copy and shadow, heaven is the reality and earth is the shadow. (Like the family system on earth, consisting of a dad, mom and children teaching us that we have a spiritual family) (Heb 8:5, Rom 1:10)
Hebrews 8:5 Talks about a better ministry which is in Christ, how He is our Great High Priest serving as our Mediator. In that the Old Testament priest who served in the temple was not perfect it was inferior compared to Jesus Christ and His ministry as our Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5), that’s the context of Hebrews 8:5
The best practice is reading not only the highlighted verse but also the surrounding text to get a clear view of what’s being taught. And we see it certainly doesn’t refer to a “family system on earth” as Raven suggest. Here’s the following verse:
Notice these words “a more excellent ministry”, “mediator of a better covenant” and “better promises” this is what the context is speaking of, Jesus as the one who fulfills the role of our Mediator.
Romans 1:10 is talking about how Paul brought the message of the Gospel, he was talking to believers in Christ. Paul was thankful for the believers in Rome and prayed that he might visit them again in the near future and wanted his journey to be according to the will of God. That’s all the verse is speaking about.
3) The old covenant was written to teach us, all the stories are prophecy about us spiritually. We are living in the New testament times. Revelation isn’t the only book about us, the whole bible is. (Romans 15:4)
Romans 15:4 is an Old Testament reference found in the Psalms, while they were not written directly to us, they hold vital lessons for us. When we go through problems no matter what they might be the Scriptures teach us to remain steadfast in our faith, and they give us comfort. That we have nothing to fear because the LORD will hold us up.
But not all of the Bible is prophecy, much of it is also historical, poetical and doctrinal. The WMSCOG looks to spiritualize the entire Bible and in doing so has convoluted the message and clear teaching of the scriptures.
4) God speaks in parables, that only He allows His chosen to read with correct understanding, it is spiritually sealed. That is why there are 850+ denominations because only God can interpret His own salvation work, human minds can only try/attempt to know and teach the gospel but do not succeed. This is why God had to come again in the flesh, to correct what was ruined so that we could know the way to have salvation. (Isaiah 2:3, Matt 13:10, Rev 5:1-4)
The Lord Jesus spoke in parables for a purpose, it was the plan of God because if the Jews would have accepted Christ as the Messiah in the beginning they wouldn’t have crucified Him which was necessary for our salvation. The crucifixion had to happen, it was the infinite wisdom of God to save us through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That’s why Jesus spoke in parables.
Raven mentions denominations. While I do not subscribe to denominations what she doesn’t understand is any denomination which believes in the primary essential truths is what determines if a person is a Christian, which are (1) the Trinity (Father, Son, The Holy Spirit) (2) Jesus is God (3) Salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone (4) Believers baptism. If any denomination denies any of the foundational truths then they are heretical.
Secondary beliefs does not determine if someone is Christian, some secondary beliefs are (1) how someone is baptised (full immersion in water backwards or forwards) (2) the role of women in the church (3) how corporate worship is to be conducted (4) shall one pastor lead or a plurality of elders.
5) Women are supposed to wear veils during worship, so she can worship God directly and correctly (cancelling out her “head”, which is man (world system is Christ, man and then woman) (1 Corinthians 11:3-9)
The covering for woman is for a few reasons (1) Headship in the order of creation, man (Adam) was created first then woman (Eve). (2) Because of the angels “For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.” (1 Corinthians 11:10). (3) This is to be done during corporate worship, men pray uncovered and woman are to be covered.
The veil is not how women can directly worship God, women just like men can worship God directly through Christ, “the veil of the temple was rent in twain” giving all believers direct access to God (Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45).
In the book of Hebrews we’re told how Christ paved the way for us to approach God (Hebrews 6:19). And we now have boldness when coming into the presence of God because Jesus Christ made the way for us through His blood.
6) New covenant does not mean we stop doing everything God commanded, the law was established through the old covenant, we still keep it even in this time of 2020, just in a different way (not animal sacrifices etc.) (Matt 5:17, Matt 19:17)
Raven believes that because Christ said He came to fulfil the Law that we also must follow the Old Covenant, I’m wondering if she knows that the Bible says the Old Covenant is waxed old and vanishing away?
The ignorance of WMSCOG is that they don’t understand why Christians worship on Sunday. Immediately after Jesus victoriously rose from the dead, some Jewish converts were confused about certain practices such as circumcision, which day of worship to observe, and whether or not to observe the Jewish feasts. These issues were addressed by Paul in Colossians 2:14-17 and Galatians 5:6. Paul enters the Jewish synagogue on the Sabbath in order to preach the Gospel to the Jews (Acts 17:2, 18:4) and afterwards gathers with believers on Sunday (Acts 20:7).
Remember Saturday is not the first day of the week, it’s the 7th day of the week, but here we see on the first day of the week which is Sunday; the disciples came together.
It’s ver unfortunate that people like Raven and others are being mislead into thinking they are capable of keep the Law. We are not perfect and the reason why God gave the Law ultimately was to show us how incapable we are to keep it. The Old Testament Law is called a schoolmaster in the book of Galatians and Paul tells us what was the purpose of the schoolmaster.
The purpose of the Law was to show us how sinful we are so that we would run to Jesus Christ for salvation, it’s through our faith in Christ that we are justified and made right with God. It’s not by keeping certain days like the Sabbath.
Lastly, notice how Raven says “I am sorry if you are one of those people who have experienced church and it be a nightmare for you, or something unholy happened that broke your trust and faith.”
We should never judge God by what a group of men have done, we always look to God Himself to see who He is, there are people out there who claim to love God and would do a person wrong. But that’s man who messed up not God. The WMSCOG claims to be the “true church” they are not the only cult which claims this. Here are a few quotes from some other cults.
Notice the similarities between the WMSCOG and these other cults which claim their church is the only true church.
Watchtower Quotes (Jehovah Witnesses)
Jehovah Witnesses claim any group outside of their own are considered “False religions”, and the only way to understand the Bible is through them.
If you remember what Raven said she mentioned “You will not find another church that teaches Gods mysteries” in other words in her mind only the WMSCOG alone is the “truth”. No. Only Jesus Christ alone is the Truth (John 14:6) and I hope that Raven and other WMSCOG members will come to know this for themselves, it’s not about a church; it’s about a Person and that’s Jesus Christ.
If you’re a current WMSCOG member this is not an article written to be a personal attack against you, but a wake up call. A call to you to be “noble and search the scriptures daily whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11), just like the Bereans we also need to dig into the scriptures and “prove all things” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
Salvation is not found in WMSCOG or any other group, Eternal Life is only found in Jesus Christ. We must be sure that we are following the real Jesus Christ of the Bible, Jesus said that their will be many false Christ (Matthew 24:23-28; Mark 13:21-23). The WMSCOG preaches a false Christ but it’s up to you to look into the scriptures and sift through the evidence, I hope for your own sake that you’ll put your feelings to the side and see if these things are true.
A good source for learning more about the erroneous teachings of the WMSCOG from ex-members some of which were leaders in the group. Is a channel called Great Light Studios run by a believer named Jordan, he has current and ex-members come on and discuss teachings from the WMSCOG. Feel free to check them out.
The World Mission Society Church of God originated in South Korea and it’s led by a woman in her mid-70s, also known as Jang Gil-ja, Zhang Gil-jah, Chang Gil-jah, “heavenly mother”, “god the mother”, “New Jerusalem mother”, and “mother Jerusalem”. Created by Ahnsahnghong, who’s believed to be her late husband, and it’s also claimed that he was the second coming of Christ, along with Jang Gil-ja are together known as “Elohim God”.
If Ahnsahnghong was the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ, yet Ahnsahnghong died February 25, 1985 then how can WMSCOG explain this verse in the Bible which says Jesus only died once and cannot die again?
Raven’s Revelations wrote an article titled “7 Christian Truths Pt. l“. I was curious to learn how WMSCOG members interpreted scripture, and test these beliefs to see if they actually aligned with the scriptures.
“I want to keep my “preaching/sharing” to a minimum when it comes to online. However, since people skim through here and this is a Christian (Spiritual) blog, I believe it’s best to incorporate some things here and there. It is not to argue or become controversial, it is just sharing knowledge. Not my own, but God’s.” — Raven’s Revelations
The preface is that what’s shared is not her Raven’s “knowledge. … but God’s.” We’re told it’s God’s knowledge, she also says “I am not an expert or a teacher, but I have been taught and do believe what the Word says”. Raven admits to not being an expert or teacher but she’s been taught, does this means the WMSCOG alone has “the truth”?
She mentions “Even though next to these truths there will be referenced bible verses, it doesn’t mean you will fully understand where the truth came from through that verse…but it’s a start to plant the seed.” Raven is implying she has special insight (revelation) to the meaning of these verses, this truly lives up to the name of her blog.
Lastly, like all the rest she directs you to the WMSCOG website at the bottom of her page. Members are taught that WMSCOG alone knows the Bible. And unless you’re part of their church then you cannot have salvation, this is the mindset groups like this produce.
1) “We have a Heavenly Father, but also a Heavenly Mother. (There is a male a female image of God). We come from a complete family (Gen 1:26-27, Gal 4:26, Rev 19:7 & 22:17)”
As humans we need a male and female to produce offspring, but not so with God, He’s not subject to the laws of creation, God doesn’t procreate (produce offspring sexually) which is a blasphemous thing to insinuate. The WMSCOG interpolates this idea into the Bible by saying believers are children of God, hence, therefore there must be a Father and mother.
This is simply not true, we are children of God because the LORD has given us His Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 4:8).
The WMSCOG frequently quotes Galatians 4:26 illustrating the existence of “god the mother”. Galatians mentions a “Jerusalem above“ that is spoken to be the “mother” of believers in Christ. So, what exactly does this imply? The premise of the context in Galatians is speaking of Faith VS Works, there’s no reason to suppose this passage teaches a “mother god”?
WMSCOG misinterprets the context of the passage, Paul never mentions a “god the mother”, the context is addressing the fact that believers are free in Christ. Paul says this was an allegory to convey a particular message (Galatians 4:24). Paul takes us back into the Torah concerning the dispute between Sarah and Hagar.
Paul makes a distinction between 2 covenants namely the Torah (The Law) and the New Testament the grace of God. In Genesis 21 were reminded of Abraham’s sons Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was born from Hagar the bondwoman and Isaac was born from the free woman Abraham’s wife Sarah.
Hagar (slave) represented the Old Testament Law and Sarah a free woman the New Testament how we are made free, with that ground work laid we can see what the passage in Galatians says. The next verse says that the children of Hagar (Agar) are in bondage with her, also mount Sinai is identified with Hagar as that’s where God gave the Law to Moses.
The verse also says these children of Hagar answer to Jerusalem, back in Genesis Hagar was under the authority of Sarah, Abraham’s wife. Abraham is told by Sarah to have a child with Hagar because Sarah cannot have children due to her barren womb. Abraham shouldn’t have done this as God promised him s son from Sarah. After Hagar give birth to Ishmael to Sarah’s amazement she finds herself pregnant and gives birth to Isaac.
When Ishmael mocked Isaac Sarah told Abraham to send away Hagar and Ishmael for he will never be heir with Isaac (Genesis 21:9-10). When Paul refers to Jerusalem as “our mother,” he’s not referring to a 2nd deity referred to as “god the mother.” The Jerusalem mentioned above is the “new covenant” of righteousness through faith, Paul’s encouraging believers to remember they are not children under the old covenant = “Hagar”, but rather under the new covenant = “Sarah”. In Gal 4 Sarah is paralleled with the “Jerusalem above,” and so Sarah herself is another symbol or representation of faith. Hagar is also used as a symbol of “works.”
All individuals who pursue righteousness through deeds, according to Paul, are Hagar’s children. This poses a huge problem for WMSCOG doctrine, if WMSCOG desires to interpret Sarah’s and Jerusalem’s symbolism as a teaching about a “god the mother,” they must also take into account the reality that Hagar is a “mother” also. If Sarah is a representation of “god the mother,” then Hagar must be a representation of another god. This concept is problematic for WMSCOG doctrine.
Revelation 19:7 & 22:17
Raven mentions Rev 19:7 & 22:17 as proof “there is a male a female image of God” this passage is called the Marriage of the Lamb, the Lamb being Jesus Christ (John 1:29; 1:36; Rev 5:6). If WMSCOG claims that if Rev 19:7 is speaking of the wife of the Lamb, are they then stating that Jesus’ wife is His own mother?
Revelation 22:17 mentions the bride again if this verse is speaking about “god the mother” then is Jesus marrying His mother? Obviously, these claims are ridiculous and I would hope that members of WMSCOG are not claiming this.
“We may wonder if 2,000 years ago, Jesus Christ ever taught about God the Mother. He did. Jesus Christ explained through the parable of the Wedding Banquet that God the Mother would appear in our time. He starts the parable by comparing the Kingdom of Heaven to a wedding banquet.” — WMSCOG
They then quote a verse in Matthew to substantiate their position. “‘The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.’”Matthew 22:2
Again are they saying Jesus Christ married “god the mother” by quoting Matthew 22:2 it says “a wedding banquet for his son”
Both Revelation 19:7 and 22:17 is speaking about the Lord Jesus being married to the collective body of believers (saints) in Christ, also known as the bride of Christ.
Only through Jesus Christ can a person receive eternal life, keeping the passover was given to the children of Israel in the Old Testament only for that dispensation which is contain in the Law of Moses. God never intended for anyone to earn everlasting life by keeping the Law, in the book of Romans and Galatians we read that no one will be justified by the Law (Romans 3:20; Galatians 3:11).
The disciples ate the bread and drank the wine, but they did not literally eat and drink Jesus’ flesh and blood. The Lord Jesus simply expressed that we would never be saved unless we apply the value of His dying for us on Calvary via faith. We must believe in Him and trust Him as our personal Savior.
The Saviour instituted the Lord’s Supper, the essential emblems (bread and wine) were on the table as part of the Paschal meal; the Lord Jesus taught them the meaning. He took the bread, blessed and broke it. He gave it to the disciples and said “take, eat, this is My body” His body had not yet been given on the cross, it’s clear that He was speaking figuratively using the bread to symbolize His body not literally.
The Passover commemorated Israel’s redemption from their bondage in Egypt. The Passover lamb was type of Christ, the Lamb of God our passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The Lord Jesus’ blood was shed to redeem us from slavery to our sins. Additionally, the Pharisees
3) The Sabbath (day of rest) is Saturday, not Sunday or whenever we want (it was moved by Satan through Roman Emperor Constantine after the last Apostle John died). (Leviticus 23:3, Luke 6)
WMSCOG doesn’t understand that while the Sabbath is Saturday, Christians worship Christ everyday but the reason why we come together on Sunday (Lord’s day) is because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday.
The WMSCOG are not reading verses in their immediate context that’s how these groups suck people into their false teachings. It’s nothing new there were false teachers in the day’s of Jesus and the apostles we should expect them even today.
The early church came together on the 1st day of the week (Sunday) for the Breaking of Bread found in Acts. A new dispensation was brought in as the believers now gathered on Sunday after the Lord Jesus was risen from the dead.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, the Pharisees had questioned the Lord Jesus because His disciples picked corn on the sabbath day when they were hungry. They asked: “Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?” (Mark 2:24). Jesus seeing their hypocrisy answered saying:
God in the Old Testament allowed king David to eat the showbread which was unlawful, but at the time king David was not reigning yet, the Lord Jesus being the King of kings had His disciples eat corn and the Pharisees didn’t show any compassion towards them. One of the great commandments in the law is to “love your neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:34-39; Mark 12:28–34; Luke 10:25–28 ).
4) Christmas, St. Patrick, St. Valentines, Thanksgiving and other man-made holidays are pagan and most have the underlying worship of gods (Sun god Mithra mostly) (Daniel 7:25).
Raven’s Revelations talks about holidays as being pagan and then misuses Daniel 7:25 to make her point. The problem is that this verse has nothing to do with holidays, this verse is speaking of the anti-christ which would come in the future.
Paul addressed this issue in the book of Romans, one person may regard or esteem a day while another believer doesn’t.
This argument about holidays is a moot point because there are Christians who don’t celebrate and there are those who do, the important critical issue are not if someone celebrates Christmas. The important issue is who do they believe Jesus Christ is and what the Bible teaches in terms of the foundational truths of the Christian faith.
5) We are on earth because we sinned in heaven and the way to go back to heaven is to repent. We don’t remember anything because we were cut off from the 4th dimension and put on the prisoners’ outfit (our flesh). Where we can no longer fly, or be immortal. (Revelation 12:9, Job 38:4 & 21) Satan was the one to deceive us in heaven and is the reason we are all here on earth, everyone on earth was once an angel and God casted him and us down to earth instead of hell because of His mercy and love. The story of Adam and Eve is about us.
None of the 66 books of the Bible state that humans existed and “we sinned in heaven”, mankind came into existence after the 1st man and woman were created by God in the garden. Humans do not come from angels, how do we know this? Christ became Man, He took onto Himself human nature not angels, we read about this in Philippians and Hebrews.
The fist chapter of Hebrews tells us no angel was called God’s Son (Hebrews 1:5). Therefore, we can conclude that Jesus Christ being a Man never took on the nature of angels. Christ became one of us in order to bear our sins in His body.
Revelation 12:9 is speaking of Satan and those angels which rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven. This has nothing to do with Adam or the human race which came from the 1st man and woman.
Raven’s argument is that “we sinned in heaven and the way to go back to heaven is to repent”, by quoting Revelation 12:9 she’s saying humans were cast out of heaven along with Satan. If she wants to take that stance then there couldn’t be any salvation for us if this verse is talking about mankind. Satan is forever condemned along with those who followed him, unless she’s willing to say Satan can be saved?
When reading verses they must be placed in their context and harmonize with all of the Bible. Satan and his followers are eternally condemned and cannot be saved, therefore, this verse in Revelation cannot be referring to mankind.
The book of Job uses poetic language and in Job 38:4 God is asking Job a rhetorical question, God asked “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?” In other words Job was not there when God laid the foundations of the earth. How can Raven reconcile this if humans were angels and immortal? God disagrees with her and is saying, you were not there when He created the earth.
The same is true with Job 38:21, reading the chapter you’ll realise that God is questioning Job and proving that Job is a created creature and God is the Creator. Just as the potter and the clay, the clay cannot ask the potter why did you make me like this (Isaiah 29:16; Isaiah 45:9; Romans 9:20)?
6) In the last days (which we are in) God is coming back in the flesh with a new name FIRST, before He comes in fire to judge the world (rapture is not biblical, but a theory)(Hebrews 9:27-28, Rev 3:11-12)
Verses 9:27-28 contrast between the 2 Covenants, the Torah (the Law) and the New Covenant which Jesus Christ Himself made possible by His sacrifice. The Law condemned sinners to death “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”, the New Covenant introduces the infinite sacrifice of Christ to atone for our sins “Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many”.
The Rapture known in Greek as the harpazō ἁρπαγησόμεθα “shall be caught up” is biblical. In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Paul says to the believers in Thessalonica told the believers that the Lord Himself will descend from heaven, and call believers to meet Him in the air. This is the harpazō (Rapture) which is also known as a violent snatching away.
Paul reminds us that all believers who are in Christ, those who are asleep (the grave) and alive before the Rapture, will be caught or snatched up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. This is not something unusual to scripture. Paul was caught up into paradise in 2 Corinthians chapter 12.
Revelation 3:11-12 talks of Christ’s coming and that believers are to remain steadfast, and not to allow anyone to rob them of their crown. Believers will be made overcomers and made a pillar in the inner sanctuary of the LORD. Believers will given a name by the Lord and this Jerusalem is the city which will come down out of heaven, this is not referring to a person called “mother god” but a city “and the name of the city of my God”.
7) Satan runs this entire world, although God is king, the world is Satan’s playground only for a certain amount of time. Satan wants to deceive as many people as he can, even through church and priests, in order to bring as many people to where he is headed when this is all said and done. (John 12:31, 2 Corinthians 4:4)
It’s true that Satan “runs this entire world” but God is only allowing it for a certain duration of time. The important issue is are you in Christ that’s the only place anyone will be safe from the deception of Satan. And WMSCOG is being used by Satan to deceive many people into believing a false gospel.
The world was judged when they crucified the Lord of Glory Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 2:8), likewise the prince of this world Satan was defeated at Calvary. He tried to stop Christ but instead the Lord Jesus provided a way for all guilty sinners to be reconciled to God through the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
Satan here is called the god of this age, he’s been very successful in keeping people blind to the truth of the Gospel. Keeping them in darkness and away from the the light of the Gospel and the Light of Christ who is the Light of the world (John 8:12; John 9:5). Satan places barriers making it harder for men and women to come to Christ for salvation, cults like the WMSCOG preaches a works based salvation which clearly contradicts Ephesians 2:8-10. Salvation is apart from works (Romans 4:6; Psalm 32:2; Philippians 3:9)
I commend the fact that she (Raven’s Revelations) has a love to want to know God, that’s a wonderful thing. What’s sad is seeing her love and zeal for wanting to know God has lead her astray by a cult. The Bible speaks about this in the book of 2 Timothy, it tells us to beware of false teachers.
I would highly suggest that if Raven really wants to know what the Bible teaches then she needs to step back from the WMSCOG and read the Bible on her own. I don’t know how long she’s been involved with this group but others who came out of it said the longer you stay in the harder it is to learn the Bible properly, because of all the false teachings you have to unlearn. My prayers goes out ti individuals like these because they have been exploited even though she genuinely wants to know who God is.
God is never referred to in the female tense then how are members from WMSCOG deceived into believing such a thing? Like all cults the WMSCOG twist scriptures to get their doctrines into the heads of many people who are lacking understanding of what the Bible teaches.
This quote makes the fallacy of equivocation mistake. The logic used is because humans experience the makings of a family which consist of children who are born from a father and mother, therefore, it makes sense that God the Father would need a “mother god” in order to create. It’s a carnal way of thinking, the WMSCOG creates a humanistic God. They’re trying to reduce the Eternal God of the Bible bringing Him down to our human standard. On the WMSCOG site under “god the mother” they cite a few scriptures stating these are proof of “god the mother” under the heading God the Mother Exists they cite Romans 1:19-20.
There’s no evidence proving any existence of “god the mother” in the above verses. The WMSCOG uses this to allude to their being a “god the mother” in saying it’s a “mystery”. The context of Romans 1:19-20 is speaking of unbelief and the consequences thereof. The unregenerate man looks at creation, he enjoys its sunsets, gazes at the stars, and realises the vastness of the sea. Then he begins to see himself in the true light and where does he fit in all of this? He contemplates how all of this came to be (Job 7:17; Job 15:14; Psalm 8:4; 144:3; Ecclesiastes 6:11; Hebrews 2:6)?
Romans 1:19-20 is telling us that mankind has no excuse when the time comes that we will stand before our Creator to give an account of all that we’ve done in this life. God has given us more than a sufficient amount of evidence for His existence. There will not be 1 Atheist who will appear before the Almighty God and claim that God didn’t reveal Himself to them, because the creation testify’s of the Creator (Psalm 19:1; 97:6).
Another verse they use to argue that the Bible teaches a “god the mother” is found in Genesis.
All Christians believe in the Godhead, we believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the one God spoken of in Deuteronomy 6:4. Nowhere in the Bible is “god the mother” spoken of, when Christ told the disciples “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” wouldn’t this have been a perfect time to mention “god the mother”?
Yet, the Lord Jesus never mentions anything about any female deity, in Genesis 1:26 Elohim which is the plural Hebrew word for “gods”, it’s also a generic term used for even false gods. In Exodus 32 when the people asked Aaron to “make us gods” the word there is also Elohim. God in His infinite wisdom knew that He was to be distinguished from other “gods” which are not gods at all but idols.
This is the reason Moses asked God saying “Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?” Moses knew that there were many “gods” the Bible speaks of Molech, Baal, Ashtoreth, Chemosh, the heathens often caused the children of Israel to worship false gods. God made sure we knew He alone is the True God telling Moses IAMTHATIAM (Exodus 3:14). The True God Yahweh wanted to be certain that He was recognisable as the true God among all the idols that littered the land.
If the WMSCOG cannot bring clear scriptures from the Bible to substantiate their claim, then we must reject this false idea of “god the mother” just because as humans we need a male and female to produce offspring. God is not subjected to the laws of creation, He doesn’t procreate which is a blasphemous thing to even insinuate by saying that since believers are children of God therefore there must be a Father and mother.
This is simply not true, we are children of God because the LORD has given us His Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 4:8). If you’ve found yourself part of WMSCOG I highly suggest that you leave and don’t come back, instead go to Jesus Christ for salvation. Jesus Christ is not God the Father, which is another erroneous teaching we will explore, He’s the Son of God who can save you from your sins. God bless.
The Black Hebrew Israelites always claim that God is only concerned with Israel and not non-Israelites. They even go as far as to say the word Gentile refers to Israelites who somehow don’t know they are an Israelite and have been living in places in the Bible like Ethiopia, Phenice, Cyprus, Antioch, Seleucia etc. But the Bible is very clear in making distinctions between Israelites and Gentiles.
Passages such as Acts 11 after Peter preached the Gospel to Cornelius a Roman Centurion we’re told that God granted eternal life to the Gentiles in the same way He has given to the Israelites, shows a distinction these Gentiles are not Israelites who were living in these places. That’s not to say there weren’t Jews in other lands but God’s word keeps us from confusion in every occasion when it refers to Jews in another land we read words like synagogue and proceeding are indicators of what land Pisidia in the case of Acts 13:14.
The BHI will refer to Isaiah 14:1-2 and claim that Israelites are going to posses non-Israelites as slaves in the future. Is that what the Bible says, that Israelites will have non-Israelites as slaves or did this already take place? That’s what I’m going to demonstrate here.
This is the jumping off text the BHI use for their argument that they will be given slaves. If we read the verse in isolation it does seem to say that Israel will possess non-Israelites as servants, but we must ask the question is did this already take place?
In the Bible we’re told that Israel suffered 3 major captivities, Egypt, Assyrian and Babylonian. The previous chapter in the same book Isaiah gives us the context to Isaiah 14:1-2.
Isaiah 13:17-19 says that the LORD “will stir up the Medes against them”, who is “them” in this verse? If we continue on it tells us who the Medes are stirred up against “And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms,”. We learn that the Medes otherwise known as the Medo-Persia kingdom were stirred up against Babylon and that kingdom will be likened to when “God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah”. We’ll see how this comes together in the book of Daniel. Continuing on the prophet Jeremiah made a prophecy concerning the children of Israel going into captivity.
Here we have the prophet Jeremiah telling us that the LORD gave the lands to “Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon”. Also, 2 verses down God says that any nation which rebels against God’s will which is that these nations would put themself under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and if they refused they would be punished. How will God punish them? The LORD says that nation will be punished “with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence” until they have been consumed.
Remember king Nebuchadnezzar was a pagan Gentile who ruled over a Gentile nation called Babylon.
Hananiah makes a false prophecy saying the Babylonian captivity will only last for 2 years and the people rejected Jeremiah as he had told them previously the captivity would last for 70 years. Unfortunately, the people harkened to the false prophecy of Hananiah and suffered for it and Israel went into Babylonian captivity.
Daniel gives the account of what happened when Israel was in the land of Babylon, in chapter 5 Belshazzar a descendant of king Nebuchadnezzar made a feast. While they feasted Belshazzar commanded that they bring the golden and silver vessels of worship which were used in the temple by the priest of Israel. The golden and silver vessels were then defiled by Belshazzar as they poured wine into the cups and drank out of them, and while committing idolatry as they “praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone”.
The finger of God writes on the wall “MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN” and in fear Belshazzar has his astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers to interpret but were unable to interpret what was written on the wall. The queen tells him of Daniel, that he has a gift for interpreting dreams as he has done before for his father Nebuchadnezzar. Daniel is brought before the king and predicts doom for Babylon because of this abomination he committed in desecrating the the golden and silver vessels of the house of God.
Daniel tells Belshazzar his kingdom has come to an end and that the kingdom of Babylon is given to the Medes and Persians. Darius the Median took the kingdom and ruled Babylon once Belshazzar was slain that very night. This was a fulfillment of Isaiah 13:17-19 in which the LORD said He “will stir up the Medes against them” and overthrew them (Babylon) like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Here’s where it all comes together after the 70 years of captivity king Cyrus a Gentile was raised up by the LORD as a shepherd and by a decree made by Cyrus, the Israelites were allowed to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple and city. Not all of Israel chose to return to Jerusalem, Daniel stood behind in Babylon as well as others, only a remnant went back to Jerusalem in order to rebuild the temple.
But not only Israelites returned to Jerusalem, Gentile nations, non-Israelites, would assist returning with them to live in the land. Israel’s former overlords would become bondservants to help in the rebuilding of the city and temple this is recorded for us in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah.
1 Chronicles 9:1
1 Chronicles 9:1 So all Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and, behold, they [were] written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah, [who] were carried away to Babylon for their transgression.
The verse here in 1 Chronicles 9 tells us all Israel was “reckoned by genealogies”, those who returned came back in subsequent waves. Here in 1 Chronicles we’re told that “ the first inhabitants” were “the Israelites, the priests, Levites, and the Nethinims”. In Jerusalem we have “Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim, and Manasseh” which returned.
Here’s the knock out remember Israel would “possess” servants and handmaids, in Ezra 2 we’re given a long list of the rest of the people who returned but in verses 65 it says “Beside their servants and their maids”. and if we read further down to verse 70 it makes a clear distinction that these servants are Gentiles from the time when Cyrus back in Daniel gave the decree for the Israelites to return to their land and rebuild it.
And those particular servants and handmaids spoken of in Isaiah 14:1-2 at the beginning of this article are these Gentiles here in Ezra 2:65 who cleaved to the house of Israel and helped in rebuilding the temple and walls of Jerusalem. The BHI would try to argue that this is a future event but as we can see through the plain reading of the text this event has already taken place.
This is the deception of the BHI doctrine, they pull a verses out of context and run with it making an erroneous doctrine out of it claiming they will be able to own non-Israelite people as slaves in the kingdom. The BHI is a man made movement which started on 125th Street Harlem, otherwise known as 1West which is in reference to the address where the movement began.
It’s very unfortunate that there are many people who have been deceived into believing that God cares about a persons ethnicity. And if you’re not born in a specific ethnicity then you’re either part of His chosen people or and if not your condemned; this is obviously not the God of the Bible we serve. God is not concerned about what group of people you’re born into. What He does care about is if we’ve placed our faith in the Son of God Jesus Christ.
Next time we’ll take a look at the history of this cult and the different camps which came out of the BHI movement, until then stay in the word of God and be blessed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Christadelphians are a non-Christian restorationist group who hold the unbiblical view of unitarianism. They’re no different from Muslims in the sense that they believe God is a solitary one or monad. As oppose to the biblical Christian view that God is complex in His unity as one in being yet three distinct Persons who are of the one being of God.
The straw-man argument Christadelphians use as well as Muslims is that Christians believe in three gods. This cannot be more further from the truth, as Christians only believe in one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). The following are actual portions taken from their own website. I’ll provide biblical Christian responses to each segment.
The God of the Bible
“The Christadelphians believe that the God of the Bible is one, the Father alone (1 Corinthians 8:6). God stands alone and unrivaled in the universe, the source of all good and evil (Isaiah 45:5-7). We reject the idea that the devil is one of Gods’ angels that was permitted to rebel in the very heavens (thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven) and now wrestles with God for control of the world. We likewise reject the idea of a God with multiple independent personalities as not being in harmony with the teachings of scripture.”
In the Ketuvim (writings) the Psalmist in prayer to the LORD spoke of God as creating the heavens and earth, that He laid the foundation of the earth. The Psalmist David also says God is immutable which means that He never changes and will remain forever even though the heavens and earth will perish.
The Christadelphians have a problem because they would have to answer for the fact that in Hebrews chapter one, the context is Jesus Christ better than the angels. Hebrews 1 echos Psalm 102 as the Father is speaking of the Son calling Him (Jesus Christ) God and tells us that Jesus Christ created the heavens and earth; and that Christ never changes and will remain forever.
If God is a solitary one as they claim how do they explain that the LORD in Psalms 102 is the one who “laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands” and then the writer of Hebrews 1 says Jesus Christ “laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”?
Jesus is a Man, not God!
“We believe that the Bible is quite clear in its presentation that Christ is a man. The Son of God, but certainly not God Himself. The bulk of mainstream Christianity has staked its life on the assertion that Jesus is God. However, this is to be rejected for the following inescapable reasons, and many more:”
1 “God is one. There can only be one true God. It is undeniable that Jesus referred to himself and the Father as separate. To fly in the face of this the most fundamental of Biblical teachings, in any way, is to venture out onto very thin ice.”
We agree there’s only one true God, the issue is they cannot comprehend how the Father and Christ Jesus can be God. They are both of the same essence, the same way if we take two humans the two are obviously distinct. They are two different persons, but does that mean they are not the same? It depends on how you look at it, because they are the same. Both individuals are human to their nature, therefore, they are the same.
The same is true of Jesus Christ, of course Jesus is going to call the Father the only true God because He is; but the Father along with Jesus Christ is the only true God because He’s of the same substance as the Father.
In Greek which is what the New Testament was written in uses the copulative kai which conjoins the two subjects in the verse. Namely the Father and Jesus Christ as being the only true God. This is why in 1 John the Lord Jesus is called the true God.
2 “Mortality and immortality are mutually exclusive characteristics. God is immortal, and cannot die. Jesus died. If you alter this, all Scripture is inexorably weakened.”
The Christadelphians make a Logical Fallacy claiming because Mortality and immortality are exclusive, hence since Jesus died, therefore, He cannot be God. If this is true then how do they explain how we as humans will die but yet our souls will live on eternally either in heaven or hell?
While they deny those who are not saved will end up in hell, how do they reconcile when Christ said they would go away to everlasting punishment found in Matthew 25.
The context of the above passage is Christ speaking of unfaithful servants, those who showed no compassion for his fellowman. As they failed as being faithful stewards, because they didn’t show any compassion for the needy they didn’t have any compassion for the Lord Himself. Hence they were cast into everlasting punishment.
3 “Jesus always very clearly pointed out his subservience to God; in power, teaching and life itself. To assert their equality is untenable.”
4 “Mortal humans cannot exist in the direct presence of God. As Exodus 33:20 says, no man can see God and live. Therefore, to say Jesus was fully God and fully man violates scripture, since thousands of people saw Jesus.”
It seems that Christadelphians don’t read the Bible, if God was not seen then how do they explain all the people in the Old Testament who saw God?
Abraham sat down and ate food with God in Genesis chapter 18, God appeared to Moses (Exodus 6:2-3), Jacob wrestled God seeing God face to face (Genesis 32:24-30).
The Lord Jesus Christ unveiled His glory on the mount of transfiguration (Matthew 16:28—17:13; Luke 9:27–36; 2 Peter 1:16–18 ), Christ called Himself God Almighty (Revelation 1:8), lastly we have the account of one of Christ disciples (Thomas) calling Jesus God, if Jesus is not God this would have been the perfect moment that the Lord Jesus should have said He’s not God.
In the Old Testament God said He would not share His glory with anyone (Isaiah 42:8; Isaiah 48:11), and then we see in the New Testament the Lord Jesus said He shared glory with God the Father before creation was made (John 17:5).
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
The Christadelphians cult is deceived into thinking that Jesus is only a man, just like Muslims claim. Christians have always believed Jesus Christ is a real Man, but He’s also God because He took unto Himself a human nature; this is called the Hypostatic Union. In addition to the 2 erroneous doctrines they hold to there are more, therefore, they cannot be saved as long as they keep these false teachings. We’ll touch upon those other teachings in a later article, Lord willing.
Recently Muslims in Birmingham UK attacked Mufti Abu Layth another Muslim, they came to his house at night wearing mask as to conceal their identity and proceeded to toss stones through the windows. Screams coming from within the home were of his wife and 2 daughters ages 6 and 9. Who his 2 daughters were traumatized to the extent that they were hysterical and couldn’t sleep because of nightmares.
It was the result of Muhammad Hijab calling for action against Abu Layth in regards to the current fighting happening between Israel and Gaza Palestine. This is the true face of Islam, even Muslims cannot get along with one another to the point that they would target a man’s home and family. Unfortunately, this is what Islam teaches, Muslims are required to believe in the Quran but also the Hadith (the Sunnah of the “prophet”), Tafsir and Sira.
Just to get a little insight as to the horrific teachings of Islam we should look at how Muhammad conducted himself. As Islam is founded upon him. Here are some of Muhammad’s teachings from Islamic sources.
There’s no peace in Islam because they (Muslims) don’t have the Prince of Peace the Lord Jesus Christ (Isaiah 9:6). In addressing the disciples before His crucifixion the Lord Jesus told them He would give them peace.
Because Islam is without Jesus Christ they (Muslims) will never know peace until they come to Jesus Christ for salvation. As Christians we pray for all men that they would come to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, and in this crazy time prayers go out to Mufti Abu Layth. May this be a huge awakening that he needs to leave the dark religion of Islam and embrace the Light of Jesus Christ for eternal life, as Christ is the Light of the world.
If you’re familiar with this group you’ll know that they claim to be the “true Hebrew Israelites”, perhaps you’ve seen them on the street corner yelling out random Bible verses mostly from the Old Testament. And if you listen closely at some point you’ll hear verses that aren’t so familiar, that’s because they are reading verses from the Apocrypha. At his point you might be wondering what is the Apocrypha?
Unfortunately, most Christians are unaware of the teachings from this cult because they aren’t interested in learning on how to defend their faith from these groups, and sadly there are people falling victim to this racist cult which is only concerned with the colour of their skin. It’s my intention to bring some light to the body of Christ. Black Hebrew Israelites use the books of the Apocrypha in conjunction with the Bible to prove that Blacks are the “real Jews”. They are especially well versed when it comes to the Old Testament scriptures and deceive people into thinking they are Israelites. The Lord Jesus Christ said:
The Apocrypha is comprised of the following books: 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Additions to Esther, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Letter of Jeremiah, Prayer of Azariah, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, Prayer of Manasseh, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees.
In Tobit we have a story which takes place in Ninevah, Tobit is wanted by the ruling authorities because of burying Jewish bodies (Tobit 1:17-19). Tobias (Tobit’s son) is to be married to a young woman named Sara. Tobit becomes blind from bird feces falling into his eyes (Tobit 2:10). Then an angel by the name of Raphael helps Tobit to concoct a magic spell to help heal his father’s eyes, as well as drive away a devil from his soon to be bride Sara.
Every child of God recognises that magic is an abomination to Yahweh and should not be practiced. In the OT God tells the nation of Israel in the book of Leviticus “Regard not them that have familiar spirits” if the children of Israel did they would “be defiled by them” (Leviticus 19:31). In the book of 2 Kings we have the account of Hezekiah’s son Manasseh king who did “evil in the sight of the LORD”, he brought back the idolatress high places of worship which his father Hezekiah had destroyed. It says that he “wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.” (2 Kings 21:6).
The book of 2 Maccabees is a historical account the first book covers the Maccabean Revolt the book is dated to 100 BC. A Jewish elder by the name of Mattathias leads a campaign against Antiochus Epiphanes IV. The problem with this book is that it promotes prayers for the dead, this teaching meshes with the teachings of the Roman Catholic church promoting the concept of purgatory.
A teaching which is alien to scripture, additionally reading the verse again we see that 2 Maccabees 12:46 also teaches a person who is dead can be loosed from sins. The Bible never tells us that we can pray away someone’s sins, in-fact we see the opposite found in the book of Hebrews.
Once a person dies they are subjected to judgement, its this writers hope that the individual has Christ Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Otherwise they will face God not as their Saviour but as their judge at the Great White Throne found in the book of Revelation.
The Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20 “As a child I was naturally gifted, and a good soul fell to my lot; or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body”
Definition of Neoplatonism: Platonism modified in later antiquity to accord with Aristotelian, post-Aristotelian, and eastern conceptions that conceives of the world as an emanation from an ultimate indivisible being with whom the soul is capable of being reunited in trance or ecstasy.
The view found in The Wisdom of Solomon is that the soul preexisted before before the body came into existence. This cannot be true because our souls had a beginning we are not eternal, only after the soul was created will it live on forever in either of one of two places, heaven or hell.
The thought of a preexistent soul is a foreign concept neither found in the Old Testament or the New. When God created Adam He formed him out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils making him a living soul (Genesis 2:7). It was at that time that man became a living soul and not before, we are not an “emanation” from God as Neoplatonism teaches.
In Tobit these two particular verses of giving alms teach a works based salvation by giving alms “Because that alms do deliver from death” (Tobit 4:10). This is in clear contradiction to what we know from the Scriptures.
The Bible clearly teaches that we are powerless to save ourselves from death or to purge away our sins. In Romans we’re told that the law cannot save us but shows us that we’re sinners.
It’s only through the sinless Lamb of God that we can have our sins purged and we delivered from death through the second birth. This is what the Lord Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:1-8. John the Baptist when he saw Christ exclaimed that it was through Him sins would be put away.
As shown the Black Hebrew Israelites not only twist the scriptures to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16) but they also incorporate erroneous books into their teaching and claim the Apocrypha is the word of God. This can’t be true as we know there are no contradictions in the Bible, therefore, we must reject the teachings of the Apocrypha and Black Hebrew Israelites.
We will continue to dive into other teachings from the different camps of the Black Hebrew Israelites, Lord willing, as their doctrines change from camp to camp. And it’s not my intention to use any straw-man arguments when identifying certain teachings, as I acknowledge that not all Black Hebrew Israelites have the same beliefs.
Muslim argument: The Injeel, Torah and Jabur are indeed sent by god. Unfortunately they have been corrupted. Jesus is God’s Son as the Christians believe. But how come you pray to Jesus when you’re the ones that claim Jesus to be God’s Son? God is totally overshadowed by Jesus. Jesus this, Jesus that. What role does God play in Christianity? Bible was a Hebrew book and all you came up with a Greek version of it. And Jesus is said to have died for your sins. So, you mean to tell me God killed his Son for the sins you committed? Why and how the killing of Jesus resolved you of your sins? And why was he sent to earth in the first place?
Response:“they have been corrupted” If the Bible is “corrupted” as Muslims claim why does the Quran direct Muslims to ask “the people of the book (Jews and Christians)” in Surah 10:94. How can Allah direct people to another group (Jews and Christians) to ask for guidance if the book they believe in is corrupted? That makes no sense! In saying the Bible is corrupted Muslims are attacking their Quran because the Torah and Injeel (Gospel) is “Allah’s words” according to the Quran.
And Allah says no one is able to “change” or “alter” his words (Surah 6:34; 6:115; 10:64). Therefore, we must come to the conclusion either the Quran is correct in saying the Bible cannot be corrupted which means Islam is false because it contradicts the Christian faith, or the Quran is wrong and the Bible was corrupted which means Islam is false because Muslims believe in a book which wrong.
“how come you pray to Jesus” Let’s look at this from a logical standpoint every individual has parents. For example a father and son. A father and son are the same in regards to nature? The son is just as much human as the father is human? Christian’s don’t believe Jesus Christ was born the same way we humans are, and we don’t believe Jesus was created because He’s eternal. We pray to Jesus because (1) Jesus is God and deserves our worship (Revelation 5:12). (2) He told us to ask Him anything in His name to pray in His name (John 14:13; 14:14; John 15:16; John 16:23-24; John 16:26). Prayer is communication, therefore, if we claim to have a relationship with Christ why wouldn’t we pray to Him? If you love someone then you will be willing to communicate with them. But a more direct response is we pray to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
“Bible was a Hebrew book and all you came up with a Greek version of it” This statement proves the lack of understanding of how the Bible was composed. The New Testament is not a “Greek version” of the Old Testament which is written in Hebrew. Both the Old and New Testament agree to who God is as He revealed Himself in the Person of Jesus Christ. The Quran comes a lot later and then contradicts the Bible.
“And Jesus is said to have died for your sins. So, you mean to tell me God killed his Son for the sins you committed? Why and how the killing of Jesus resolved you of your sins?” Yes, Jesus died for my sins and the sins of the world (1 Corinthians 15:3; Galatians 1:4; 1 John 2:2). God sent His Son into the world (John 3:17; Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:9) but God didn’t kill His Son, it was wicked men who put Christ on the cross (Matthew 17:22-23; Mark 9:31; Luke 9:44; Acts 2:22-24). The Lord Jesus was the perfect atonement for the sins of the world (Hebrews 9:13-14; Hebrews 10:1-4) just as we see in the Old Testament how God commanded the children of Israel to sacrifice animals for the sins of the nation of Israel as a temporary atonement for sins found in the book of Leviticus.
Muslim argument: That would mean since Jesus is God’s Son. So he is as much God as his Father is? Okay, understood. But God is totally overlooked in Christianity. Jesus is worshipped instead of God. I mean, did God retire? Is it monarchy? Let’s just say Jesus is God for argument’s sake. If he was indeed God then why didn’t he just forgive all of humanity without having Himself killed. And if it was indeed God’s plan to forgive humanity by killing off his Son, then were the killers of Jesus good people since they helped God in executing his plan?
Response:“So he is as much God as his Father is? Okay, understood. But God is totally overlooked in Christianity. Jesus is worshipped instead of God.” Christians worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Hols Spirit. We believe in 1 God and only 1 God. The Bible says there’s only 1 God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 44:8). If we as humans are just as much human as our father then Jesus Christ being the Son of God is just as much God as the Father is God. In the Bible we see a distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit yet all 3 are called God.
And because Jesus is just as much God as His Father that would make Jesus God because He shares the same essence as the Father.
In Genesis 19 Abraham is visited by 3 men, 2 of them turn out to be angels which are sent to Sodom and Gomorrah. The 1 man who stays behind turns out to be God and He tells Abraham that Sarah his wife will have a son. Sarah was barren she was not able to bare children and laughed. The man then said “is there anything to hard for the LORD?” Later Sarah gives birth to Isaac.Later in the chapter it says that when God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because it was a place of evil. The verse says the LORD rained down fire from the LORD in heaven.
Here we have 2 persons called LORD, 1 on the earth who is before Abraham, and 1 in heaven.
“If he was indeed god then why didn’t he just forgive all of humanity without having himself killed.” If Muslims are familiar with the Torah, we see that God commanded Israel to build an altar in order to do sacrifices. The reason why they had to do this was for the atonement of sin. It was a temporary atonement for sins, so they sacrificed animals in the temple for this reason. The issue is that as humans we are more valuable than animals because we are made in God’s image, animals are not. Therefore, the blood of animals couldn’t atone for anyone’s sins. In the OT it says a life for a life etc. Meaning if a man killed another man, he could be punished by his life being taken away. Life for life.
This is why there’s an issue animals do not have the same value as a human, so the blood of that animal cannot atone for sin. God’s purpose in telling Israel to do it was a constant reminder of their sins so that when the Perfect Man Jesus Christ came who is also God He would be the perfect sacrifice. He (Jesus) had the value beyond measure because He is without any sin, and because He’s God His blood would be powerful enough to atone for the sins of the entire world.
Also, the reason why God cannot forgive you without the death of Jesus is because if He did that would make God unjust. He must serve justice and destroy all evil in the end, therefore, God made a way out of the judgement by sending His Son to be a propitiation for the whole world (1 John 2:2).
Muslim argument:God is one. Yet you mentioned God the holy father, God the son and God the holy spirit. Who is bigger God here?What are the functions assigned to these three gods? The whole analogy is vague and invalid. God doesn’t have to answer to anyone for his actions. But He has to kill his Son because He is just?!That would mean killing an innocent for the actions of the criminals which I reckon are us. Also, if our sins are indeed forgiven then we don’t need Jesus or God for that matter.We are innocent and therefore we’ll take our seats in heaven after our death. God is just so He killed an innocent and spared the lives of the culprits!
Response:“You said God is one. Yet you mentioned God the holy father, God the son and God the holy spirit. Who is bigger God here? What are the functions assigned to these three gods?” There’s no such thing as a “bigger God” all 3 Persons are the 1 God, they are co-equal. Christians do not believe in 3 separate gods. We believe in 1 God.
“What are the functions assigned to these three gods?” The Father is in heaven, the Son comes into the word to redeem mankind, the Holy Spirit indwells believers thereby placing them in Christ making them spiritually alive (born again).
“But He has to kill his son because He is just?!!!!! That would mean killing an innocent for the actions of the criminals which I reckon are us.” God didn’t kill Jesus Christ, the Romans killed Him, but Jesus gave His life willingly Jesus said:
Jesus Christ was innocent and He gave His life for guilty sinners. Those who are saved willingly received the free gift of eternal life that we don’t deserve and cannot earn. If someone offers a gift it’s accepted freely you don’t have to pay for it. There’s no forgiveness of you sins without the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. When a criminal commits a crime do you not agree that justice must be served?
The book of Isaiah written 740 BC speaks about the death of Jesus saying:
“We are innocent and therefore we’ll take our seats in heaven after our death.” No one is innocent, a lie, anger, using God’s name in vain, lust, these are all sins, therefore 1 sin is enough for a person to end up in hell for all eternity.
Muslim argument:Why didn’t God save his Son when wicked men kill him? And God could have pardoned all of humanity without the death of Jesus since He has no one to answer to. So, a bigger God divided into three different entities just to take up different roles? Jesus died for our sins but we are not forgiven! Then what He died for? Bible is the God sent scripture which tells us about Jesus. Without that we have no connection to him whatsoever. What did He do for me? He didn’t wipe out my sins. He didn’t wipe out the sins of our ancestors who lived during his time since it would mean helping the sinners and blasphemous people. Then why He died for? Do you see the irony?
Response:“Why didn’t God save his Son when wicked men kill him?” That would be called universalism and Islam teaches only Muslims will enter Jannah, therefore, to say why can’t God just forgive everyone goes against the what Islam teaches. Because God decided since eternity past that the Son of God would come into the world to redeem mankind (Revelation 13:8). It was God’s provision in sending the Lord Jesus Christ to be the Saviour of the world (John 4:42; 1 John 4:14).
“God could have pardoned all of humanity without the death of Jesus” No. Because if God arbitrarily forgave people that would make God unjust, God cannot do anything against His own character, He’s Holy, Righteous and Just. God must punish all sin and, therefore, He cannot turn a blind eye to sin (Isaiah 59:18; Romans 2:3-6; Revelation 22:12).
“a bigger God divided into three different entities” Here’s a straw-man argument, Christians do not believe God is “divided into three entities”. We believe God is 1 in Being and within that 1 being there are 3 Persons, God is complex in His unity from the beginning in Genesis we have a plurality when God says “Let us make”, “Let us go down there” (Genesis 1:26; Genesis 11:7). In the NT we have Jesus Christ forgiving sins (Mark 2:7; Luke 5:21), and we have scriptures which has all 3 Persons present at the same time (Matthew 3:16-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22).
“Jesus died for our sins but we are not forgiven! Then what He died for?” We’re told in the Bible that Christ died for our sins to save us from the wrath of God. This is easily explained by apostle Paul in Corinthians.
Muslim argument:If someone commits the crime then that “someone” should be punished. The judge will not sentence the best man because his blood will purify him, in this case that is whole of the humanity. How is this even justice? Would it be justice if my brother says okay I will go hang for my brother because I love him very much? And will the judge punish an innocent man for the crime of another even though He wanted to face the sentence in exchange for the freedom for their loved ones?
Response:“if someone commits the crime then that “someone” should be punished.” Exactly! Someone has to be punished, God must dish out justice against all evil. What Muslims don’t understand is that Jesus Christ took the punishment we deserve upon Himself. Isaiah chapter 53 explains this. God can forgive the sinner on the righteous basis of what Christ has done and remain just and righteous because He sacrificed Himself and removed the wrath of God from those who place their trust in the real Jesus Christ who is God.
For example, picture the wrath of God as a truck speeding down a road. And someone was crossing the street but didn’t see the truck coming. A stranger runs and pushes them out of the way saving their life but instead he got hit by the truck. That’s what Jesus Christ did on the cross. He took the wrath of God on Himself, so that we didn’t have to be condemned.
As long as Muslims reject the Son of God, they can’t be saved because they’re rejecting God’s provision in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
“And will the judge punish an innocent man for the crime of another even though he wanted to face the sentence in exchange for the freedom for their loved ones?” That’s exactly what happened! A family member who would risk even give their own life for those they love. That’s a picture of the amazing love of Christ, that He would sacrifice Himself for guilty sinners. What amazing love that the Father has bestowed upon those who would come into the Light of the Lord Jesus Christ!
More arguments from Muslims which proves they are sadly mistaken as to who Jesus Christ is, the Christian position is we believe Jesus Christ is eternal but He’s also a real Man through the virgin birth. He always existed eternally with the Father in heaven as the Word of God(John 1:1) and came down from heaven(John 3:13; John 6:38, 51, 58). Therefore the straw-man arguments Muslims bring as you’ll see below prove they don’t understand that Christ has 2 natures and we can explain both sides as Jesus Christ being the Son of God and Jesus Christ the Son of Man.[Muslim Statement][Christian Response]
1. Christians say: “Jesus being born without a father proves he is God:”The first mistake is Christians don’t believe Jesus Christ is biologically born in the same sense as us humans are, we had a moment in which we started to exist but Jesus Christ always existed. Muslims falsely claim this as a “Christian belief” and putting it out as what they think we believe but get it completely wrong. Jesus is the Word of God and He always was with the Father before creation ever existed (John 1:1), the Word of God (Jesus) made/created all things (Genesis 1:1-3; Psalm 102:25; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:10).
Here’s a preposterous statement from the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir: “(How can He have children when He has no wife) for the child is the offspring of two compatible spouses. Allah does not have an equal, none of His creatures are similar to Him, for He alone created the entire creation. Allah said;”
Muslims claim that Christians believe God would had sexual intercourse to produce a Son! This is complete blasphemy on Islam’s part and grossly wrong. A non-Christian cult like Mormons believes this but not Christians, and to further prove the point that Islam teaches this is found in in the Quran.
1.Muslims say:“Adam was born without a father & mother does that make him God too?” Actually Adam was not “born” he was created from the dust of the earth (Genesis 2:7), this makes Adam a creation but Jesus Christ is the same God who formed Adam from the dust of the ground.
2. Christians say:“Jesus is God” Amen! He is God the Lord Jesus said He was God in the book of Revelation calling Himself the Alpha and Omega the Almighty (Revelation 1:8). In Isaiah it says that Immanuel would come through the virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14) and this name means God is with us (Matthew 1:23). Where also told in Isaiah that the child born through the virgin birth is called God (Isaiah 9:6). So the prophets call the child God and Jesus Christ who is the child born through the virgin birth calls Himself God.
2. Muslims say:“But Jesus made it very clear telling us to believe in only one God – If Jesus was God for sure he would of made it very clear by saying to the people me & God are your two Gods. Jesus, said “Hear, O Israel the Lord Our God, the Lord is one. (Mark 12:29-31)” Does a car have 1 door or more than 1, and if more than 1 door is it still 1 Car? The problem Muslims have is that they cannot grasp the concept that God is complex in His unity as demonstrated with the car analogy. The three Persons of the Godhead are of one essence that no one else shares that essence outside of God therefore all 3 Persons are the one God. Yet they are distinguishable from each other. The word Being is what you are, while the word Person is who you are they don’t have the same meaning.
3. Muslims say:“Jesus said why do you call me good?” “No one is good—except God alone (Luke 18:19)” It’s quite sad that Muslims use a verse like this and say Jesus was not claiming to be God and they accept that, even though that’s not what the verse is saying. Why is it they believe Luke 18:19 and say “Jesus is not calling Himself God”, but ignore other words from Jesus saying He is God like Revelation 1:8 calling Himself the Almighty? That’s called having a double standard. There’s not just one verse in the Bible but many, if you “accept” Luke 18:19 as Jesus claiming not to be God then by that same standard you must also accept Revelation 1:8 when Jesus says He is God.
4. Christians say:“Jesus is human & God” Correct Jesus Christ is both fully God and Man, it’s called the hypostatic union which refers to the two natures of Christ (Philippians 2:5-8; Colossians 2:8-10).
5. Christians say:“Jesus is human & God” See response in #4
5. Muslims say:”But the bible says For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5)” Quoting the verses which highlight the humanity of Christ don’t refute the Christian position, Christians have always believed Jesus is both God and Man and we have verses which speak to both natures of Christ. As Mediator Christ fulfills this role as a real Man, in the Torah the position of high priest could only be held by a man of 30 years age or older. Jesus was a priest after the order of Melchizedek (Leviticus 8; Exodus 29; Numbers 4; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:6). Oil (anointed) was applied to the individual, and a verbal blessing was given, lastly water was applied (baptism).
7. Christians say:”Jesus has willingly died for our sins” See response #6
7. Muslims say:”Christians please explain why Jesus was begging God to save him if he was on a mission to save mankind. Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)” See response #6
8. Muslims say:“How did you gain from the Jesus sacrifice if you must still repent for your sins just like us?” When a person places their trust in Jesus Christ for salvation means they’ve already repented, salvation happens in an instant. Additionally, that person is given the Holy Spirit as God promised (Joel 2:28-29; Acts 2:17-18). Muslims don’t believe in the true Jesus Christ who is God therefore they cannot cannot be saved as long as they reject who Christ is to His nature being God Almighty (John 1:1; 20:28; Colossians 1:16-17; 1:19; 2:9; Titus 2:13; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:8; Revelation 1:8).
Muslim Argument #1 Accept Jesus Christ from his original teaching. Christianity is all about what Paul preached. Did Jesus Christ demolished circumcision law of Moses and kosher Paul strictly forbade the covenant were Jesus Christ followed all the commandments. JW have their own bible, Jews have their own, Catholic have their own.Theres over 30,000 denominations of Christianity you all have your own way of belief how would you substantiate that? Was 25 December birth of Jesus? Majority of Christians celebrate it. God in the Old Testament is one and only who forgive sins by repentance in New Testament he changes his mode of salvation.Theres three person in Trinity according to Christian scholars each is regarded as God so theres 3 Gods so that makes Christianity an idolatrous faith.
Christian Response:Muslims say Christians believe in 3 gods, this far from the truth. They misunderstand the Trinity and it’s teachings. Christians worship 1 God (Deuteronomy 6:4) and the 1 God is comprised of 3 distinct Persons who share the same Being (essence/substance/nature) seen throughout the Old and New Testament (Matthew 3:16-17). We can explain the singular and plural verses showing there’s One God complex in His unity.
“Christianity is all about what Paul preached.” The apostle Paul preached Christ who’s the same God of the Torah. In the book of Genesis we have the LORD calling down fire and brimstone from the LORD in heaven (Genesis 19:24). Here we see there are 2 individuals who are called LORD. We also have the child born in Isaiah 9:6 called “the mighty God”. Therefore, Paul preached Christ is God, and we see in the Old Testament the child born of a virgin is called “the mighty God” and “Immanuel” which means “God with us” we’re told in Matthew (Isaiah 7:14, 9:6; Matthew 1:23).
“JW have their own bible, Jews have their own, Catholic have their own. Theres over 30,000 denominations of Christianity you all have your own way of belief how would you substantiate that?” First Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian, the Jews share the same Tanakh we Christians have in our Bible. As for denominations that has no bearing on the shared foundational Christian beliefs. Whether they identify as Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal etc they all believe in the Trinity, that Jesus Christ is God, and salvation is only through Jesus Christ alone and in the infallibility of the Bible.
“Was 25 December birth of Jesus?” Lastly, whether a Christian believes Jesus Christ was born on 25th of December or not is secondary and has no bearing on a person’s salvation. “God in the Old Testament is one and only who forgive sins by repentance in New Testament he changes his mode of salvation.” In the Old Testament we see that God is complex in His unity as mentioned before in Genesis 19:24 the LORD in heaven rains fire from heaven from the LORD on earth (2 people here). In other passages we have the Angel of the LORD who claimed and did things only God can do like “multiply people”, “and swear by Himself” and is called the LORD.
Genesis 16:10 “the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly” as you can see the Angel of the LORD spoke in the first person saying “I will”. In Genesis 22:11-16 The angel of the LORD said Abraham didn’t keep his son from Him saying “for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.” Again using personal pronouns in the the first person said “from me”.
Lastly, this Muslim used a straw man argument as Christians do not believe God “changes His mode of salvation” which would be modalism a heretical teaching, as we don’t believe in 3 gods. Muslims don’t understand the difference between 1 God in Being (essence, nature, substance) but the 1 God is comprised of 3 distinct Persons. For example the long buses we have driving down the street can be easily seen as 1 bus, yet this 1 bus has 3 doors in which people can enter and exit. While it’s 1 bus we see it has multiple components while still remaining 1.
Muslim Argument #2The bible is tampered and altered by the church fathers to support the doctrine of Trinity.
Christian Response:“The bible is tampered and altered” Muslims are under the assumption that the doctrine of the Trinity was created by the church fathers. They are unaware that we get our doctrine from the scriptures not from the early church fathers, a classic verse showing all 3 Persons of the Godhead is found in Matthew 3:16-17.
There’s no verse in the Quran which states the Bible was “corrupted,” because the Bible and Quran are in contradiction to each other Muslims are forced to claim the Bible was changed. All the while their Quran affirms the Bible was never corrupted. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the Gospel/Injeel were all given by Allah.
When a Muslim claims the Bible was altered they are denying their own Quran as it affirms the Bible saying it cannot be altered. Why then are Muslims telling us that the Bible is corrupted? Because the Quran contradicts the Bible in many ways especially when it comes to the Person of Christ. The Quran denies Jesus Christ is God and the Death, Burial and Resurrection found in Surah 4:157 and Christians are told to judge by things in the Gospel
They claim there’s only 1 Quran yet there are more than 40 Arabic Qurans and are they the same? Majority of Muslims use the Hafs Quran version more specifically the 1924 Cairo edition. Here’s an example of 2 different Qurans the Hafs and the ibn Jamaz
Hafs Quran: hami’atin “murky” Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of MURKY WATER: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
ibn Jamaz Quran: haameiyatin “Extremely hot” Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of EXTREMELY HOT WATER: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
Q: Does the sun set in murky or extremely hot water? There’s quite a difference between dark and gloomy, and extremely hot water.
Muslim Argument #3 Typical Christian dispute when you cant substantiate the errors and contradictions in the Bible and according to JW theres over 50 thousand errors in the bible. As far as the Quran is concerned there are different pronunciation and dialect but over all the message is intact. Scholars from different faith acknowledged the Quran is in its original form.
Christian Response: Interesting that Muslims would appeal to a non-Christian cult like the Jehovah Witnesses as they have misrepresented the Bible by adding words into their own translation in order to promote their own theology. Notice the Muslim says “different pronunciation and dialect” there’s a double standard here. Muslims are quick to point out that there are “multiple versions of the Bible,” this statement is incorrect there are multiple English translations of the Bible but there aren’t “multiple versions of the Bible”. If there were this would imply the underlining text of Hebrew and Greek had multiple versions which they don’t. Therefore our Bible has not changed, additionally, notice the Muslim says “over all the message is intact” how can this be if there are multiple Arabic Versions which is the underlining text the Quran is founded upon?
Thank the LORD we don’t have this problem with the Bible. But why do Muslim say the “overall the message is intact” for the Quran when it’s not yet they don’t hold the same standard for the Bible. Our English translations may phrase a verse slightly different but as they claim the “over all the message is intact” and what message is that? It’s the Good News of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ who has procured salvation by His perfect work at the cross of Calvary.
The claims of “50 thousand errors in the bible” is unfounded and not provided by Muslims and hasn’t provided any scholars who claim “the Quran is in its original form”.
“Scholars from different faith acknowledged the Quran is in its original form” On the contrary Muslim scholars are starting to say the opposite here are 2 well known Muslim scholars who have contradicted themselves.
Contradicting Quotes from Muslim scholar Dr. Sheikh Yasir Qadhi on the preservation of the Quran: “So the Caliph Uthman standardized the copies of the Quran. And therefore, from his time up until our time there has never been two copies of the Quran that are different even in one letter or one word and this is because of the farsightedness of the Caliph Uthman” — Dr Sheikh Yasir Qadhi
“ah and the Quran ah there’s only one Quran there are no various versions or whatnot its one standard copy of the Quran across the Muslim world…and uh there’s really not been any variants versions of the Quran the Quran is the Quran for all sects and schisms and groups of Islam…and we also all Muslims take pride in the fact that there is but one Quran there’s no variants of the Quran” — Dr Sheikh Yasir Qadhi
“And when we say the various different ways to recite the Quran we’re not talking about different voices or different styles we’re talking about slight differences in pronunciation slight differences in letters. Especially those who have been exposed to some of our brothers who live Algeria or Morocco or other north African countries they recite the Quran in a slightly different way. Not just a voice or not just a speaking style but also changes in letters and words and Harakat” — Dr. Sheikh Yasir Qadhi
“The standard narrative has holes in it” — Dr Sheikh Yasir Qadhi
According to Dr Yasir Qadhi the first quote says there has never been two copies of the Quran which are different in one letter or word, he goes unto say in the next quote there’s only one Quran with no variations without any variants, then he says there’s different pronunciations and different letters and changes in words and Harakat.
Another Muslim scholar who has changed his view over the course of time it seems is Dr Shabir Ally from Toronto here are some of his quotes concerning the preservation of the Quran. Contradicting Quotes from Muslim scholar Dr. Shabir Ally on the preservation of the Quran:
“Today most Muslims read the Quran in a text that is referred to as the Egyptian edition of 1924. That’s how scholars refer to it most Muslims may not realise that this is the designation for that manuscript for that text to Muslims, in general, this is simply the Quran. But this is not the only text of the Quran that is read throughout the world in North Africa there is a slightly different text that is based on a slightly different reading and then to in some parts of Africa there is another reading of the Quran and a matching manuscript that is prevalent and here too we find some slight variations that do not affect Muslim beliefs and do not affect Muslim practices in any significant degree.” — Dr Shabir Ally
“how do we make sense of all of this? We want to retrace the history of how these manuscripts became divergent. How is it we have a variety of readings of the Quran and manuscripts to match?” — Dr Shabir Ally
Here we have another scholar who is confessing there’s different Quranic text read in different parts of the world, he goes onto say that the Quranic manuscripts became divergent and they have a variety of readings. This destroys the claim that there’s only one Quran with no change in letters or words.
Muslim Argument #4 The verses are clearly states the event authored by God himself. Yasir Qadi spoke about the pronoun-citation and dialect not holes in the content. You are trying to hang on every straw you should listen to Tovia Singer and Bart Ehrman.
Christian Response:Pronoun-citation there’s no such word that exist, the word is pronunciation. As shown above their own scholars admit there’s different versions of the Quran. Tovia Singer denies “Isa” (Islamic Jesus) now Muslims are going to bed with Jews who reject Jesus Christ and Muhammad.
Bart Ehrman the Muslims favorite agnostic said the Muslims are wrong about Paul in that Muslims claim Paul invented Christianity, he (Ehrman) said “some people say that Paul invented Christianity and that can’t be true, Paul was persecuting Christians before he became a Christian and so if he invented Christianity he would have nobody to persecute”. As you can see how this argument from Muslims backfire on them.
Let’s see what your other scholars say about the preservation of the Quran.
Muslim Argument #5Tovia Singer’s believes in monotheism and rejects NT as man written fabrication. Again different variations and dialect which do not effect Muslim practices and for your information the ideology of Jesus Christ remains intact. Bart Erman brings out the falsification if his statement overwhelms you then be it. God is God and man is man only relation is creator and creation period.
Christian Response:“Tovia Singer’s believes in monotheism” It seems Islam stops the brain from working, Christians also believe in monotheism. Tovia Singer is against Jesus Christ, he doesn’t believe Isa is the Messiah which the Quran says Jesus (Isa) is the Messiah. Therefore, Muslims who appeal to the Jews are refuting their own beliefs as their Quran affirms Jesus is the Messiah.
Appealing to Jews who in actually don’t agree with the Muslim position is illogical. And once again Christians believe in 1 God and 1 God only. The problem is Muslims don’t understand what the Trinity doctrine is this is why they’re confused.
As for Bart Erhman, he doesn’t deny the Bible, he’s an agnostic who believes the historical facts of the Bible. What he denies is if God exist. Those are 2 different subjects, he believes in the historical aspect of the Bible, but in terms of God he doesn’t know if God exist.
Congrats to Muslims proving Islam is false appealing to to men who: (1) Denies Jesus is the Messiah, even though Muslims believe Isa is the Messiah (Surah 4:157), but they don’t know what the word Messiah means. (2) A man who rejects the notion of the existence of God, even though Muslims believe in Allah “the god”. Can they not see how these 2 people refute the Muslim position? As a Christian we don’t need to appeal to an Atheist and Jesus rejecting Jew to prove our position.
First I’d like to say that who ever is running the following blog (answeringsceptics) is doing a good job refuting Muslim claims. Therefore, I would like to encourage them to continue the needed work in challenging Islamic arguments; it’s appreciated.
When Peter was confronted by Paul in Galatians 2 for hypocrisy on Peter’s part when he used to sit with the Gentiles, then separated himself from them when James arrived. This brought up the necessary need to discuss doctrine in regards to if the Gentiles had to be circumcised as the Jews were. Here 2 believers in Christ had a disagreement and needed to discuss this important issue. And we should follow suit, as Christians we shouldn’t shy away from doctrinal differences and foster friendly healthy debates.
As I perused the answeringsceptics blog I came across the post titled “Refuting Critics – On Speaking In Tongues”. Feel free to read the article and compare between what it says and the Bible. I also encourage you to do the same with this post as well and come to your own conclusions.
Believers in Jesus Christ affirm that speaking in tongues was proof of an individuals salvation according to certain text found in the Bible, the position I’m taking is these verses were meant for that time for a specific purpose and not for our time. We’re told in the Bible to “Study to shew thyself approved” (2 Timothy 2:15). There are Christians who claim unless you speak in tongues you’re not saved. What we’re seeking today is to prove if this is what the Bible teaches?
This is a friendly rebuttal to answeringsceptics in which they argued for speaking in tongues. I will be taking the negative position. While the Bible does state people spoke in tongues, my contention is it was a temporary sign for a specific purpose at that time (not for today).
Is Isaiah chapter 28 talking about speaking in tongues? The chapter is dealing with the coming judgement upon Ephraim and their predicted captivity by the Assyrians. In verse 28:7, 8 Isaiah confronts Judah, just as Israel they’re drunken in their own “vomit and filthiness” and now they “stumble in judgment”. The leaders mock the LORD complaining saying “them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts”.
God responds saying because you don’t want to heed to my message, I’ll send a foreign invader (Assyria) to you as an invading nation who’s language you will not know. Their foreign tongue will be a sign of judgement on the people who rejected God and His message.
The Lord Jesus in Mark 16:17-18 is speaking of what would happen after His ascension recorded in the book of Acts chapter 1 which was for the apostolic age. (1) Cast out demons “For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them:” Acts 8:7, Paul cast out a demonic spirit from “a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination” Acts 16:18, and recorded in Acts 19:11-16. (2) “they shall speak with new tongues” refers to the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) as well as the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius the centurion (Acts chapter 10); Paul at Ephesus (Acts chapter 19). (3) “They shall take up serpents” when Paul was at the island called Melita and was bitten by a poisonous snake and was unharmed (Acts chapter 28). (4) Drink poison is not recorded in the book of Acts but was attributed to John and Barnabas by church historian Eusebius. (5) Lastly laying hands on the sick (Acts 3:7; 19:11; 28:8, 9).
The purpose of these signs were to authenticate the apostles who were bringing the message of the Gospel. People in those times wanted to know the message of the Gospel was of heavenly/divine origin. We find the answer in the book of Hebrews chapter 2 and Acts 15:8 which says:
As we come across these verses the question arises “Do these signs exist today?” I believe these signs were for that dispensation, before the entire cannon of scripture was made available for us today. Most of these signs are found in the book of Acts as mentioned.
In the article answeringsceptics stated that “Notice those bold, underlined words. Speaking with new tongues is one of the signs of believers (Christians); in other words, speaking in new tongues is one of many signs that one (non-believer) can differentiate between Christians and non-Christians. If that’s true, then there is no way that speaking in new tongues here means being polyglot because you and I know that many non-Christians are polyglot.”
Might I ask where in the text above (1 Corinthians 14:22) does it say “new tongues”? It doesn’t the only place you’ll find the words new tongues is referenced in Mark 16:17 and as I mentioned this is talking about what would take place in the book of Acts which was the beginning of the church age.
If our friend wants to use Mark 16:17 in meaning these new tongues were somehow an angelic language then how can they explain the beginning chapters of Acts in which the people on the The Day of Pentecost heard them speaking in tongues and replied “And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?” The people understood these languages as their mother tongues “wherein we were born”.
I’d like to point out that these tongues were for a sign (1 Corinthians 14:22), this was not a permanent sign that would continue on throughout this dispensation. It served its purpose in authenticating the apostles before the cannon of scripture was complete. We no longer have a need for these sign gifts as we now have the completed Word of God.
The problem with using 1 Corinthians 14:2 to support “speaking in tongues” as answeringsceptics suggest is if you read Greek you’ll notice the word “unknown” doesn’t appear in the original text. The translators added the word to convey a thought, for example if a congregation of English speaking believers came together and one of them began to speak French all of a sudden that would be speaking in tongues. The language would still be a recognizable language, it wouldn’t be an angelic heavenly language.
The word “unknown” in our English Bible is found in [brackets] or italicised in order to indicate that word doesn’t appear in the original text. The Greek word for unknown is άγνωστος and it’s not found in that verse.
The verse actually reads For he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
The reason why the verse says he doesn’t speak unto men but unto God is because there needs to be an interpreter. Without interpretation the entire assembly has no idea what’s being said, but God does because God understands all languages, but we do not understand foreign languages on the fly.
Once again the Greek word άγνωστος (the Greek word for unknown) is not found in the text itself.
answeringsceptics says goes on to say: “As we see, Paul is saying, (1) it’s his spirit that prays when he prays in tongues (2) not even him understands what he is saying. This refutes the “Paul was polyglot” theory.”
If we continue to read in context the very next verse tells us
Paul is contrasting 1 Corinthians 14:14 with 14:15 and never intended for anyone to speak in ways that others wouldn’t understand. Quite on the contrary, he was saying when speaking we should speak and sing with understanding. The notion of Paul being a “polyglot” is not in view, the truth is God gave the ability for men to speak real languages at a moments notice.
Our friend answeringsceptics quotes 1 Corinthians 13:1 and places a focus on tongues of men and of angels, insinuating that because angels was mention therefore it must mean Paul was speaking an angelic language that’s out of the realm of this world. The question is when angels appeared did they speak in an angelic language?
When the angel Gabriel appeared to Zacharias to declare he and his wife Elisabeth would give birth to John the Baptist did Zacharias “speak in tongues” to Gabriel (Luke 1:5-25). The same angel appeared to Mary in the chapter foretelling the birth of Jesus Christ and there’s no indication Mary “spoke in tongues” to Gabriel (Luke 1:26-38). It seems that angels spoke in the language Zacharias and Mary understood, not in a language which is not understandable.
answeringsceptics then quotes 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 and claim Paul’s heavenly vision is proof of speaking in tongues because of the words “unspeakable words”, lets read this verse in context. First the word for unspeakable in Greek is ἄρρητα (arrētos).
ἄῤῥητοςárrhētos, ar’-hray-tos; (as a negative particle); unsaid, i.e. (by implication) inexpressible:—unspeakable. Biblical Usage: (1) unsaid, unspoken (2) unspeakable (on account of its sacredness). Note the words spoken are highly sacred not that they are a heavenly language not understandable to men.
Did Paul not know himself? Obviously this passage is about Paul’s vision and he did know the man because he’s talking about himself, are we to believe Paul didn’t know himself. Notice when we get to unspeakable words the following words after say “which it is not lawful for a man to utter”. Paul is not telling us these words couldn’t be understood because he says these words were not lawful for him to utter or speak. In other words he was not allowed to speak of what he heard. How can answeringsceptics take this passage and say “Because natural men cannot understand it”, Paul is a man did he understand what was spoken? Yes he did, but it was not lawful ie. not permitted to tell of it.
We see this with John in the book of Revelation when the angel who had the little book found in chapter 10.
Here we have John who heard the 7 thunders uttering and he thought to write down what he heard, but a voice from heaven told him to “Seal up” or conceal what he heard and not to write what was spoken. In other words it was not lawful for John to record what he had just heard. The same as Paul he heard things which was not permitted for him to speak about.
answeringsceptics quoted 1 Corinthians 2:14 commenting: “People only spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit. This is another proof that it has nothing to do with men’s languages, otherwise I don’t see the difference between those whom the Holy Spirit came upon and “polyglot” non-believers.”
Let’s read again the context of 1 Corinthians 2:14
This passage is speaking on wisdom and teaching which unbelieving men reject because they don’t understand spiritual things. Nowhere is this passage indicating there’s a language which unbelievers can’t understand. answeringsceptics is superimposing their idea of speaking in tongues into passages. The key words in the passage is “wisdom”, “teach”, “discerned”, “instruct” the theme is of learning what’s being taught.
The word for discerned and its meaning in Greek is ἀνακρίνω (anakrinō) properly, to scrutinize, i.e. (by implication) investigate, interrogate, determine:—ask, question, discern, examine, judge, search.
Now we get to the key passage which causes so many believers great confusion, the verse I’m referring to is Acts 2 otherwise known as The Day of Pentecost, proponents of speaking in tongues typically use this verse to prove that speaking in tongues is something we all should experience in these days.
The question that must be continually asked is where in Acts 2:1-4 does it ever imply that “speaking with other tongues” means a language which is not understandable or heavenly? Why do proponents of speaking in tongues ignore the following verses? If we go through the passage God gives us the answer.
The Spirit of God tells us at the time of Pentecost there were “Jews and devout men out of every nation”, this was a mixed multitude of people who heard the preaching of Peter. The text goes on to say they “were confounded” or confused and here’s the important part of the text “every man heard them speak in his own language.”
The text says they understood the words the disciples were speaking and this is mentioned after the verses about “speaking in other tongues” (Acts 2:1-4) The Word of God gives us the answer that “speaking in other tongues” was not a language that was not understandable. These men and women began to speak in other languages, how can we know this? God gives us a list of those languages:
Here’s the nail in the coffin, they said “we do hear them speak in our tongues”. Again why does answeringsceptics claim speaking in tongues is a special language only given to believers? How do proponents of the speaking in tongues doctrine explain this passage? The wisdom of God had it so that these men and women heard and understood the message helping to spread that message across multiple languages.
In the case of Acts 10:44-46 we’re told in this chapter that Cornelius a Gentile and others of his household got saved. Peter is a key person in the book of Acts when it concerned opening the way for Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles to become converts. Its referred to as Peter’s Confession of Christ or the doctrine of the keys found in (Matthew 16:13-19) other corresponding verses are found in (Mark 8:27–30; Luke 9:18–20 ).
Following Peter closely in the book of Acts he was the key person who would preach Christ on to that particular group of people. In chapter 2 it was Jews, in chapter 8 Samaritans and chapter 10 Gentiles.
The pattern is clear, speaking in tongues was a sign to non-believers proving God brought a message, authenticating the apostles; and lastly proof to those (Jews) who were seeking a sign (Matthew 12:38; Matthew 12:39; Matthew 16:1; Matthew 16:4; Mark 8:11; Luke 11:16; John 2:18; 1 Corinthians 1:22). Those people who saw something they couldn’t explain and could only attribute the sign as something from God would come to a place in which they now had the fear of God upon them. Speaking in tongues was a sign also when the assembly gathered as a way of convincing the unlearned or unbeliever who was among them observing.
Notice 1 Corinthians 14:22-25 says tongues was a signnot for believers but for those who didn’t believe. Paul also says if the whole church (local assembly) is together and all spoke in tongues and an unbeliever or unlearned person was present they might think the Christians were crazy (mad). In this same passage prophesy is given a more important place than speaking in tongues, Paul says but if all prophesy and a unbeliever or unlearned individual was present they would be convinced, this would result in that person falling down on his face and worshipping God. In other words that person would come to believe in God.
If speaking in tongues were so important why isn’t Paul giving us that impression? Continuing in the same chapter he goes unto say:
Again the word “unknown” is not found in the original text but was inserted by the translators help the text read more fluently. Paul asked the question why when they came together everyone wants to give a psalm, teaching or has a tongue? The problem in the Corinth church was everyone wanted to be in a prominent role, there was confusion when they came together. Notice “tongues” was not of great importance as Paul stated if there was no interpreter that individual should remain silent.
In the chapter before Paul addresses the importance of love (1 Corinthians 13) saying love never fails but prophecies will fail, tongues will cease (stop). Why? Because when that which is perfect comes (Christ, God’s Word) we will have no need of those things because we have the full cannon of scripture in our hands.
answeringsceptics comments “They also suggest that the purpose for speaking in tongues is to preach the Gospel to people whose languages they don’t speak nor understand; but these passages show that these believers were not about to preach to anyone, they spoke in tongues simply because they received the Holy Spirit as He gave them the utterance. It was for their own benefits as Jude tells us to use it to attain our most holy faith (Jude 1:20); not for preaching! (See Romans 8:26-27 for more)”
The context of Jude is that false teachers and mockers would come going after their own ungodly desires, they separate themselves and don’t have the Holy Spirit. It seems answeringsceptics is trying to suggest that this text is about “speaking in tongues” when it’s talking about ungodly men and warning us to keep ourselves in the love of God.
answeringsceptics uses the above passage in Romans to suggest it’s talking about speaking in tongues. How does one come to that conclusion when it’s saying the Holy Spirit “makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered” meaning the Spirt sustains us in our weakness when we’re unsure of what to pray for in our life. The Spirit of God assist us with intercession which cannot be expressed. It’s the Spirit that groans and not us “he” (that is the Holy Spirit) “maketh intercession for the saints”. If someone “speaks in tongues” that would mean they are uttering which is contrary to the passage.
He said we ought to always speak in tongues; this has nothing to do with preaching the Gospel. It rather means speaking in tongues in prayers, confessions or in worship:
Paul tells the believers in Corinth to desire earnestly to prophesy and don’t forbid men to speak with tongues. This shows the importance of both gifts, prophesy was to be desired, while the other was not to be banned. Prophecy was more valuable than tongues because unbelievers could be convicted by it and believers edified. Tongues without interpretation had no other purpose other than to speak to God and to one’s self, displaying their own proficiency with a foreign language given by God.
I would like for answeringsceptics to provide evidence in the Bible in which someone spoke in tongues and it was not understandable, a language of heavenly origin. There’s no verse or passage in the Bible that tells us about a heavenly language not known to man.
Paul tells us to “be not drunk with wine” when a person is drunk they are controlled by a substance, in this case wine which is also called “spirits” (plural). The apostle is instructing us instead of being drunk with wine to be controlled or “be filled with the Spirit”. The Holy Spirit should control believers lives. During the day of Pentecost the people tried accusing those from the upper room of being drunk with new wine (Acts 2:13) but we know it was the Spirit which was controlling them.
The results of being filled with the Spirit are “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs”, believers gather and recognise the Psalms as inspired scripture in-which we can speak or sing. Hymns accompany our worship of the Lord as well as spiritual songs.
answeringsceptics used Ephesians 5:18-19 to prove speaking in tongues is a heavenly language, again unless I’m missing something the verse is talking about Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. It doesn’t say speaking in an unknown language.
Conclusion: In every instance in which speaking in tongues are mentioned the word “unknown” is not found in the original Greek text. This greatly proves that “speaking in tongues” as answeringsceptics suggest is unbiblical, I would like to see how answeringsceptics would interpret these passages knowing the word “unknown” is not found? The entire argument is based upon this one word inserted by the translators in order to make the English more comprehensible when reading.
In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul asked a retorical question, and it addresses the issue at hand. We see that he asked if all are apostles, prophets, workers of miracles or have gifts of healing? The obvious answer is no, only 12 were chosen to be apostles including Paul. There are no more prophets as we have all of God’s word available to us and no further revelation has been given. And not everyone had gifts of miracles and healings even though they were believers (Matthew 17:17-19; Mark 9:28; Acts 19:11-20). Then the question is asked “do all speak with tongues?” the answer like the rest is no, not all spake with tongues.
Therefore to suggest or imply that everyone should have the gift of tongues is contrary to the word of God and is alien to the entire concept of the body with its many different members each of them with its own function within the body of Christ.
I hope that after reading this and comparing both post with God’s word you can come to your own conclusion about this in house issue between believers.
There’s a preacher on YouTube by the name of Gabe the street preacher, he’s been around for some years posting videos preaching on different street corners. He tends to frequent churches, colleges, concerts, parades etc.
Gabe states that he’s Christian yet denies fundamental Christian doctrine, some of which are listed here from his own channel. Doctrines Gabe the street preacher denies are (1) The Trinity / Godhead (2) believes a person must be baptised “in the name of Jesus Christ” for salvation thereby denying the commandment of Christ in Matthew 28:19 (3) a person must “speak in new tongues” as evidence of salvation. (4) Thinks born again Christians can lose their salvation.
(1) Oneness Pentecostals deny the plurality in the Godhead, namely the Trinity because they think by holding to the Oneness of God they must reject the 3 Persons within the Triune God. It’s not known if Gabe the street preacher identifies as a “Oneness Pentecostal”? But he certainly holds to the teaching that God as 1 individual.
The same is true of Muslim and Unitarians they also deny the plurality or Persons within the 1 God. And when the following passages are read in context the belief that God is 1 individual fails apart.
Gabe holds to the teaching of Modalism (otherwise known as Sabellianism) which has been proven as a heretical teaching. The following verse proves there’s 1 God (Deuteronomy 6:4) but since the Bible has no contradictions how does a Modalist interpret verses which shows a distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
In the classic case of the Trinity found in the Gospel of John we read:
Clearly the Word is a separate Person from “God” John 1:1 says “the Word was with God”, in order for the Word to be with God denotes two Persons are in view. If we read the Greek which is even more powerful it reads that the Word was πρὸς τὸν θεόν which means “face to face” with God. How does Gabe the street preacher interpret this scripture if he denies the Trinity?
Another problematic verse is the baptism of Jesus Christ in the Gospel of Matthew:
In this account we have Jesus Christ in the water, Christ see’s the the Spirit of God coming down like a dove upon Him; and we have a voice from heaven. This is another proof text of the Trinity we have 3 Persons in view, the Lord Jesus in the water, the Holy Spirit coming down on Christ and the Father speaking from Heaven. How can verses like these be explained by a oneness person who denies the Trinity?
In a recent video Gabe went as far to make a claim that the Catholic church some how altered the text to insert the Trinity into the Bible. This claim lacks knowledge on a fundamental level, this is the same attack Muslims use against the Bible. It seems Gabe has more in common with Islam than Christianity. The reason why his argument is weak is because (1) the Catholic church was not in existence during the times of Christ (2) manuscripts were already being distributed throughout the world before the Catholic church was formed (3) in order for the Catholic church to “alter” the text of the Bible they would have to find every manuscript in the world and systematically alter the text without destroying the papyri by erasing/adding words.
We have over 5800 Greek New Testament manuscripts to date, with an impressive 2.6 million pages of biblical text. If Gabe the street preacher understood the silliness of his assumption he would see that it’s impossible for anyone to remove or add words into the text of the papyri.
This is not taking into account the Hebrew Tanakh (Old Testament) as well. All of which both the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts were distributed throughout the world. The Catholic church would have to gather each one in order to “change the text”. It’s an impossible feat just gathering them, on top of actually changing the text itself would require damaging the delicate papyri its written on.
Lastly, we have textual critics who have dedicated their lives to researching these manuscripts and none of which agree with Gabe. Also we must take into account that these manuscripts are written in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Aramaic, Syriac and Coptic. I’d love to hear from Gabe how he thinks it would be possible to complete such a task? We can rest assure that the manuscript evidence for our Bibles are solid and the text found within them sound.
Muslim Argument #1It seems you (Christians) don’t do a single good deed you totally depend on atone of sins. Mohammed gave 10 of his companions glad tiding for heaven and pray for them he spoke in humble so that we become humble, he left no notion so we didn’t become arrogant like Christians. No matter which angle you approach Islam it does not change the fact that Jesus Christ was a messenger and prophet of God try and refute that. When I was a Christian I never had the sickness towards Mohammed as you all do I always admire the acknowledgement of Jesus Christ in Islam theres no other religion accepts Christ apart from muslim. So stop this nonsense and study the bible thoroughly by your own intellect without any other intervention from anti Islam apologist.
Christian Response: Christians do perform good deeds but we don’t point to them as a way of justifying ourselves before God. Our “good deeds” do not merit salvation, but our good deeds are a byproduct or proof of our salvation. This is the point in the book of James, it’s not about proving anything to God but proving salvation before men.
How are Christians “arrogant” when they don’t point to themselves but Christ for justification as our Redeemer. Islam teaches good deeds can earn salvation that’s the hight of arrogance itself. Muslims say Muhammad “spoke humble” is this true? Here are the words of Muhammad you can decide for yourself if he was humble.
Its safe to say Muhammad was not humble in any way. Muslims claim to honour Jesus Christ as a prophet and nothing more, but there are too many passages in scripture which we would have to ignore for this claim to be true. (1) Christ forgave sins, in both Mark 2:7 and Luke 5:21 in which the Lord Jesus heals a man “sick of the palsy” and Christ forgives his sins. The Pharisees respond saying “Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” Great question!
Some verses which show in the Old Testament that the LORD God forgives sins, yet we see in the New Testament that Jesus Christ forgives sins.
If God can only forgive sins why do we see that Jesus Christ also forgiving sins? We’re forced to come to the logical conclusion that Jesus Christ is more than a mere prophet, He’s God in the flesh. Christians worship Christ as God there can’t be any higher honour given.
Muslim Argument #2 No 1 – Jesus Christ never used disgusting language towards any religious figures Mohammed instructed us never to disrespect religious figures.When we reject the Trinity it should not be taken as an insult because it’s a belief and dispute between Christians and Muslims. You are afraid of your faith being scrutinised otherwise you would not had done the comparison between two prophet born and raised in different era. Jesus Christ is accepted by Muslims and we believe he taught monotheism he is in the lineage of prophethood from Adam to Mohammed.Miracles are part of prophethood a sign given by God for those people at that time its not for us as we are unable to give any prove or evidence I don’t believe its scientifically proven our faith and belief Is our acknowledgement.
Christian Response: While its true Christ never used “disgusting language” He did call the religious Pharisees “hypocrites”, “whited sepulchres full of dead men’s bones”, “full of extortion and excess” etc. Was Christ using “disgusting language”? No. Whenever the teachings of Islam are examined Muslims get upset and resort to ad hominem’s; that’s a sign of someone holding a weak position.
Muhammad calls Jews and Christians the worst of creatures.
Muhammad destroyed all the pagan idols surrounding the Kaaba, “Vanish” means to be destroyed.
4443. It is related that ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud said, “The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, entered Makka and there were three hundred and sixty idols around the Ka’ba. He began to poke them with a stick in his hand, saying, ‘Truth has come and falsehood has vanished’ (17:81) and ‘The Truth has come. Falsehood cannot originate or regenerate.'(34:49)” (The Sahih Collection of Al-Bukhari, Chapter 68. Book of Tafsir:)
As for monotheism, Christians also affirm there’s only 1 God (Deuteronomy 6:4), we don’t believe in 3 gods. Therefore, bringing up monotheism as a talking point is a straw man. Trinitarianism has always believed in 1 God.
Another error is Islam teaches Adam was a prophet, from where do they get this idea? Neither the Torah, Nevi’im, Ketuvim or New Testament teach that Adam was a “prophet”. Adam was the first man created but he made no prophesies. Anyone who claimed to be a prophet had to pass the requirements God gave to us in testing if a person was a real prophet.
Muhammad never came in the name of Yahweh, and he brought the name of another god called Allah. Muhammad made no prophesies which came true, and in the Hadith Muhammad was poisoned and said his aorta was cut. Why mention his aorta? The Quran says that anyone who spoke falsely would die having his aorta cut, and this is how Muhammad died. So I guess Muhammad prophesied that he was a false prophet.
Muslim Argument #3 What makes a person Christian? Well the experience I had before and after my conversion you spend your entire time attacking Islam and Muslims. How I was a Christian I tell you something I was a Bible basher and it was my strength I converse with Muslims within my Christian boundaries not by interrogating or misquoting their scripture.
Christian Response: The Muslim doesn’t give a testimony of their “salvation” but resorts to personal attacks when they don’t have an answer. Giving rants about how they use to be a Bible basher and conversed with Muslims with Christian “boundaries”. The Quran indeed breeds “Bible bashers” because the Quran denies
Muslims hate when Islam is questioned, they’re taught to not use their brains to just follow blindly. Yasir Qadhi in the popular interview with Hijab, YQ says there’s a red line Muslims are not to cross when it comes to questioning Islam.
YQ also says that academia doesn’t adhere to this red line and have been asking pressing questions which their Ummah cannot answer. Muslims will even deny their own Muslim sources when quoting the Quran and Hadith’s because Islam can’t be defended for instance, Islam teaches men can have sexual relations with girls who have not reached the age in which they’ve had their menstrual cycle.
The Surah which follows is from Chapter (65) sūrat l-ṭalāq (The Divorce).
This Surah is explaining how Muslim men are to wait 3 months when divorcing to make sure she’s not pregnant. In order for someone to divorce they must first be married. When 2 people are married they come together to consummate (engage in sex) the marriage. Muslims also use the Tafsir (commentaries from Muslim scholars) and Hadith’s (sayings about Muhammad’s life) in order to know what the Quran teaches. Here’s the Tafsir’s which explains this particular Surah.
Lastly, let’s look at how Muhammad lived his life, because this gives us insight as to how Muslims are to live since they follow Muhammad. Here in the Hadith we’re told Muhammad married a girl at the age of 6 and had sexual intercourse with her at age 9.
Muslim Argument #1 “ilah ilah why have you forsaken me God killing himself. What a cruel Father brutally murdered Son over someone else disobedience. Do you really believe thats a merciful God? Would you let your son punished for your crime? Trinity is the most illogical ideology majority of Christians become atheist.We Muslim follow and honour Jesus Christ.Who was a prophet of God and ascend to heaven alive.”
Christian Response: To the Muslim, God is cruel because they don’t understand the grace God has given to us guilty sinners. He didn’t have to send His Son to be subjected to a gruesome death, to save us leaving us to a fate of eternal death without any hope. But because the True God loves His creation He made a way out of the condemnation.
Muslims point to what Christ said on the cross in Matthew 27:46 “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” or Mark 15:34 “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” (Aramaic for the phrase “my God”) insinuating that the Lord Jesus was referring to “Allah”. Is this the case? Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani is the Hebrew form, as in saying Elio, Elio, etc. This is the Syro-Chaldaic language (use by the Jews in the time of Christ) its referenced in Psalm 22; which means “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
They fabricate that the word Eloi to mean “Allah”. Muslims will try to find a word in the Bible which sounds similar to an Arabic word, in this case the Arabic word ilah> becomes Eli > which is reinterpreted by Muslims to mean Allah.
They fail to realise the New Testament was written in Koine Greek not Hebrew. ἠλίēlí, ay-lee’; of Hebrew origin; my God:—Eli. In Hebrew אֵלʼêl, ale; shortened for strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):—God (god).
Do some digging on the Muslim site corpus.quran.com and come across the word ilah, you’ll see it doesn’t mean what they’re trying to convince Christians of. I looked up the word on the mentioned site and it states the word is used “147 times as the noun ilāh” but more specifically “my God” is not found. The closest you’ll get is ālihatī (my gods). And to top it off the word “Allah” means the god, it’s a name, its only a generic term.
The Muslims claim the Jews said they killed Jesus Christ but that He was not killed, they refer to Surah An-Nisa.
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. — Surah 4:157
The problem the Quran has is the Jews wouldn’t say they killed “the Messiah” as they don’t believe Christ is the Messiah. The second issue is the Jews were not in the position to carry out the crucifixion, it was the Romans who crucified the Lord Jesus, not the Jews. Crucifixion was the Roman’s way of carrying out capital punishment and they were specialist in what they did as professional killers. The Quran also gets that wrong.
In the Bible we read how the Romans cast lots for the vesture of Christ.
Psalm 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
John 19:23-24 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus,took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
The Lord Jesus rose from the dead and therefore He’s alive. We see that Christ spoke of this (HIs resurrection) all throughout the Gospels. (Matthew 20:19, Mark 10:34, Luke 18:33, Luke 24:7). And He ascended into heaven shown in the book of Acts.
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
If Muslims truly honoured Jesus Christ they would be called followers of Christ which means they would be called Christians. Also, they wouldn’t try to claim Christ was never crucified, by saying so they are calling Jesus Christ a liar because Christ Himself said He would be killed. Lastly, they would be bringing the Gospel message of Christ but they don’t, they follow Muhammad and not Jesus Christ.
Muslim Argument #2So tell me you don’t do good deeds? “Is that why crime rates are high in, out of all monotheistic faith you’re the odd one out. Incest becoming normal, fornication become norm.”
Christian Response: Muslim don’t know how many good deeds will get them into Jannah (Paradise), not even Muhammad knew if he would make it to Jannah. In the Quran it says:
… you have no power to help me against Allah. … Say: ‘I am not an innovation among the Messengers, and I know not what shall be done with me or with you. …
Also Abu Bakr, the first Muslim leader after Muhammad’s death, was unsure for his own eternal destiny?
…Whenever he was reminded of his position in Allah’s sight, he would say: ‘By Allah! I would not rest assured and feel safe from the deception of Allah (la amanu limakr Allah), even if I had one foot in paradise.’”
Khalid Muhammad Khalid, Successors of the Messenger, Abu Bakr Has Come, p. 99
Muhammad and Abu Bakr were unsure of their salvation? Muslims will also claim without giving proof from the scriptures concerning the above claim of “Incest becoming normal, fornication become norm” among Christians. Just because a person claims to be a Christian and commits such acts doesn’t prove they were a Christian to begin with. We know the Bible speaks against all forms of fornication (Matthew 5:32; Matthew 19:9; Acts 15:20; Acts 15:29; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 6:13; 1 Corinthians 6:18; 1 Corinthians 10:8).
It seems the truth is Islam teaches fornication, there’s a practice in Islam called Mu’tah Marriage. It’s a temporary marriage two parties make an agreement to have sexual relations for a short period of time. It was also practised by men at the dawn of Islam during trips.
Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (r.a.a.) said: “Temporary marriage was at the beginning of Islam. A man comes by a town where he has no acquaintances, so he marries for a fixed time depending on his stay in the town, the woman looks after his provisions and prepares his food, until the verse was revealed: “Except to your wives or what your right hands possess.” Ibn ‘Abbas explained that any relationship beyond this is forbidden. [narrated by Tirmidhee]
Narrated Abdullah: We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah’s Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, “Shall we get ourselves castrated?” He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract AND RECITED TO US: — ‘O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.’ (5.87) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13o)
Muslim Argument #3 I’ll give you clear response. ‘Atone of sins ‘cause of misconducts. All prophets brought one core belief of oneness of God depending on age and time of people of that time which majority of the message was corrupted. Mohammed is one of the successful messenger that his people followed him to every jot and title. Yahweh was not a specific name given to people when Moses asked God said I AM WHO I AM!
Christian Response: The Oneness of God is a huge teaching in Islam, but the argument says: “All prophets brought one core belief of oneness of God”, this is not true the Prophets in the Tanakh spoke about the people turning to God from their sins. The “Oneness of God” was not a major theme found in the scriptures.
The Bible speaks mainly about how the nation of Israel in the Tanakh continued to fail in worshipping God, they were committing Idolatry and other acts of sin. It also speaks of mankind’s standing before Almighty God as sinners in need of salvation. It also speaks about the One who would come to give Himself as a sacrifice (Atonement) for our sins that we may have forgiveness with God, theses are the main threads running through the scriptures; starting from Genesis—Revelation.
Some scriptures to consider are found in Genesis 22:1-18, Exodus 12, Psalms 22, Isaiah 53, also Zechariah 12:10, Hebrews 11:17-19. The whole reason God instituted the sacrificial system was to point to Christ as the Lamb of God first found in the book of Exodus when Moses told the Israelites to put the blood on the door post. Lastly, Christians have always said that God gave His name to Moses saying I AM THAT I AM in Exodus 3:14. The Muslim says that God’s name is I AM THAT I AM then why use Allah, which means “the god”? This shows Allah and Yahweh are not the same.
Muhammad died like a false prophet according to the Quran which would destroy the claim that he was a successful messenger.
And if he (Muhammad SAW) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allah), We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), And then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta), — Surah 69:44-46
Muhammad ate poisoned meat and was suffering he said to his child bride Aisha.
Narrated ‘Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O ‘Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.” — Sahih Bukhari 5:59:713
We can only come to the logical conclusion that Muhammad was a false prophet because he died like one.
When dealing with Muslim arguments we must keep in mind that context is key to understanding any verse, as they’re not to be taken in isolation of others verses. Muslims learn from early on to attack the Bible, Islamic apologist such as Ahmed Dedat, Dr. Zakir Naik, Shabir Ally have been leading the way and we as Christians need to know how to respond to such arguments.
Unfortunately, many Christians are not learning how to refute these arguments. It’s important to know what you believe and why you believe it. Below are some Muslims arguments and the response to those arguments.
(1) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: I came only for the lost sheep of Israel. (Jesus says, ”I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel”— Matthew 15:24) Christians say No, you came for all mankind.
Christian Response: Matthew 15:23 tells us that Jesus’ disciples came and urged Him to send her away. In the previous verses we see this was a woman of Canaan who came to Jesus asking for help because her daughter is grievously vexed with a devil (Matthew 15:22).
The Lord Jesus was quiet at first not saying a word and the disciples asked to send her away. This is when Christ says “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”. What did this mean exactly?
The plan of God was to first bring the good news to Israel, but this in no way disqualifies the Gentiles from salvation.Christ came to save sinners, which includes both Jew and Gentile but in keeping with the plan of God He makes it known that He did not come to the Gentiles He came to the nation of Israel first. The Lord Jesus was fulfilling all the Messianic Prophecies.
He knew that He was to be rejected of His own people (Israel). But Christ came to be the Saviour of the world which includes Gentiles.
Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
She was not upset by this response. Ceasing to use the title Son of David, as this title was typically used by Israelites not Gentiles. She worshipped the Lord saying, “Lord help me!” (Matthew 15:25) If she didn’t come to Him as a Jew to her Messiah, she would address Him her Creator.
(2) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: the only true God is the Father. (“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,” (John 17:3).) Christians say No, your are also the true God.
Christian Response: A favourite verses of mine which proves the Deity of Christ as God. The Bible is originally written in Hebrew (Torah/Tanakh) and Greek (Injeel/Gospel). The Greek construction uses the copulative kai which conjoins the Father and Son in this verse as being the “the only true God”.
In other passages, we see that the Son is equal to God the Father (John 5:18), also in John verses (John 1:1-3) were told that Jesus was πρὸς τὸν θεόν face to face with the Father as infinitely far back as you can go Ἐν ἀρχῇ before creation existed, then it says καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγοςand God was the Word the Word being another name for Jesus Christ.
v2 tells us that He (Jesus) was with God (the Father) in the beginning, v3 says that all things were made by Jesus Christ, including the Muslim.
(3) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: I on my ownself can do nothing (“By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me”-.John 5:30) Christians say No, you can do everything.
Christian Response: How is it Muslims quote verses partially, on the surface it seems like it proves their point but it actually doesn’t. At first “I can of mine own self do nothing” seems to say that the Lord Jesus did not have the power to do anything by Himself. However, this is not the case. The thought is that Christ is so closely united with God the Father that He could not act by Himself. He could not do anything outside of God’s authority, if He did that would be an act of disobedience which would be sin. And the scriptures say that God cannot sin.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
There’s no possibility of unwillingness in Christ. He perfectly obeyed God the Father in the fullness of fellowship and harmony. This verse is often used by false teachers to support their claims that Jesus Christ was not God. They say that because He could not do anything of His own self, therefore, He was only a man, but the verse proves the opposite.
Men have the choice to do the things they want, whether, in accordance with the will of God or not. But because of who Christ is, the Lord Jesus couldn’t act in disobedience.It was not a physical impossibility but moral impossible. He has the power as God to do all things, but He wouldn’t do anything that was wrong. And it would have been sin for Him to have done anything that was not His Father’s will.
(4) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: the lord our God is ONE. (The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one”-Mark 12:29) Christians say No, The Lord our God is 3 in one.
Christian Response: We believe: There is one God, who exists as three co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial divine persons – Father, Son and Holy Spirit God is sovereign and self-existent, and is perfectly omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, immutable, holy, righteous and loving. (John 1:1, Matthew 28:19, 1 Corinthians 12:4-6, 2 Corinthians 13:14, Ephesians 1:11, 1 John 1:5, 4:16)
Muslims don’t understand that Christians believe in 1 God, not 3 God’s. Nobody deny’s that God the Father is God. The issue is when talking about Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. As demonstrated John 1:1-3 says Jesus made all things, again in the book of Colossians it says speaking of Christ “all things were made by Him”.
Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Note: it says everything was created by Christ, both visible and invisible, things in heaven and earth. This is more proof of Jesus Christ as the Creator. In Hebrews there’s another passage which says:
Hebrews 1:10-12 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Note: Jesus Christ is attributed as the One who “in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth” He also created the heavens which says “and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”. Only God created the heavens and the earth, and here it says Jesus did it. And it also says that Christ is immutable when it mentions the earth and heaven will pass away (wax old/perish) but He remains “but thou remainest” and He will always remain “but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”
This passage in Hebrews is also a quote from Psalms 102 which says:
Psalm 102:25-27 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou [art] the same, and thy years shall have no end.
The same words spoken of Yahweh are later attributed to Jesus Christ.
(5) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: if you want eternal life then keep the commandments. (“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments”-Matthew 19:17) Christians say No, if you want eternal life then believe that Jesus died for your sin.
Christian Response: This is one of the most misunderstood passages, many who deny the deity of Christ will claim Christ is saying He’s not good. By reading the context we know this is not the case. This passage is known as The Rich Young Ruler. This young man came to Jesus asking what must He do“what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?”
The young man was relying on his good works, like Muslims. The problem is that none of us are perfect and God requires perfection. The Bible says:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalm 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
We all are in the same boat as guilty sinners, in the book of Isaiah it says that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” basically all our good deeds are like a menstrual rag in the sight of God.
The question from the rich young ruler showed his ignorance of the identity of Christ and the way of salvation. He called Jesus “Teacher” placing Him on the same level as other men. And spake of meriting eternal life as a debt rather than as a gift from God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
As for Jesus saying there is none good, the Lord examined him on 2 points. Asking “Why do you call Me good? There is no one good but One that is God” Jesus was not denying His own deity, but was providing the man with an opportunity to profess, “That’s why I call You good—You are God.”
Testing him on the way of salvation Jesus said: “But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” The Lord wasn’t saying that it’s possible to be saved by keeping the commandments, rather, He was using the Law to bring forth conviction of sin in the rich young ruler’s heart. The man was still under the delusion he could be saved on the principle of doing. The Law was made as a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
Galatians 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Therefore, the rich young ruler misunderstood, he thought just as Muslims do that it was possible to keep the commandments for eternal life, but it’s not. Only Jesus Christ was able to do it because He alone is sinless because He is God.
(6) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: I cry and pray God to save me from death and God hear my pray. (Psalms 86:1-17) Christians say No, God didn’t saved him.
Christian Response: This Psalm is entitled “a prayer of David;’ probably it was not penned upon any particular occasion, but was a prayer he often used himself, and recommended to others for their use, especially in a day of affliction. Many believe David wrote this prayer as a type of Christ, “who in the days of his flesh offered up strong cries,’ Hebrews 5:7. David, in this prayer.
Christians do claim that God saved Christ, the Psalmist David wrote concerning Christ being raised from the dead saying:
Psalm 16:9-11 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence [is] fulness of joy; at thy right hand [there are] pleasures for evermore.
This quote from Psalms is restated in the book of Acts from the apostle Peter when he said: “For David speaketh concerning him” (Act 2:25).
Acts 2:26-28 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
(7) Muslim Argument: Jesus said: my father is greater than I. (John 14:28, “The Father is greater than I.”) Christians say No, Father is not greater than Jesus. They both are the same.
Christian Response: lastly another greatly misunderstood verse. The Hypostatic Union informs us that Jesus Christ has 2 natures, He’s both fully God and fully Man. He created all things as God, yet when He became a Man in the incarnation (virgin birth) He took on our human nature, and as a man He got tired, ate food, slept etc.
At first there seems as if this verse John 14:28 contradicts everything Christ taught concerning His equality with God the Father. But there’s no contradiction, and the passage explains itself. When Jesus was here on earth He was surrounded by enemies, He was despised, hunted, persecuted and pursued. Men blasphemed Him, reviled Him, and spat on Him. He was surrounded by His enemies.
God the Father never suffered such rude treatment from men. He dwelt in heaven, far away from the wickedness of sinners.Therefore, the Father was “greater” than Jesus Christ at that time because He (Father) sat in heaven in a greater position. But in essence, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal sharing the same in being/nature/essence. All 3 are the 1 God in being.
Humans have the same in nature, they’re both humans with the same nature, but still are 2 distinct persons. As God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 distinct persons but have the same nature/essence/being.
Jesus Christ was rejected of His people and this parable found in the book of Mark speaks of it.
Mark 12:1-9 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A [certain] man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about [it], and digged [a place for] the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. And they caught [him], and beat him, and sent [him] away empty. And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded [him] in the head, and sent [him] away shamefully handled. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. And they took him, and killed [him], and cast [him] out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
The parable speaks of the prophets (servants) who were sent by God to Israel (husbandmen) in delivering a message. But the people of Israel didn’t listen they “beat” them and “cast stones” at them and “they killed” those servants (prophets).
It says this man (God) had a Son (Jesus) and sent His Son to the husbandmen (Israel) saying “They will reverence my son” or respect my Son. But the husbandmen killed Him (Jesus).
When knowing the background and context of passages in scripture we can effectively answer the Muslim arguments brought about by Muslim apologist.
Today we’re taking a look at another Quran variant found in Surah 18:86. Our Muslim friends continuously tell us, the Quran has been perfectly preserved from any error. Every word, dot, letter and sound is the same throughout the whole world. One of Islam’s most highly esteemed scholars said in an interview with Muhammad Hijab in regards to the preservation of the Quran:
“The standard narrative has holes in it” — Dr. Sheikh Yasir Qadhi
Currently there’s been 40 Arabic Quran’s found which are being observed by textual critics and these critics have found more than 90,000 textual variants. These variants a lot of times will change the meaning of a verse which is in direct conflict with the other Quranic version.
For our purposes today we’re going to compare the Hafs Quran against the Ibn Jamaz Quran, reading from Yusuf Ali it says:
Yusuf Ali: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
Let’s look at the differences between the 2 versions, in the Hafs it says “a spring of murky water” the word in Arabic for murky is hami’atin. The same verse in Ibn Jamaz reads “a spring of extremely hot water” the word there for extremely hot is haameiyatin. We’ve established these are 2 different words with different meanings.
Viewing the 2 verses together it becomes more apparent that the two meanings are completely different:
Hafs Quran: hami’atin “murky” Ayat: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
Ibn Jamaz Quran: haameiyatin “Extremely hot” Ayat: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of extremely hot water: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
The question must be asked: Does the sun set in murky, or extrememly hot water? There’s quite a difference between dark and gloomy, and extremely hot water.
If it’s not clear that these are different to our Muslim friends, it would seem that they need to perform mental gymnastics for them to believe that the Quran has been “perfectly preserved”. Time and time again Muslims are being lied to by there Islamic scholars and Imam’s.
We Christians don’t have this problem, while there are different English translations of the Bible this in no way affects the underlining text. Muslims consistently claim the Bible has been changed, they don’t understand that our Bibles are translated from the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.
Therefore, the English rendering is no problem whether one version says “And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” or “Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.” doesn’t change the doctrine/meaning of the verse in view. The Quran on the other hand has a huge dilemma, because the issue lies within its original Arabic text.
Muslims come to Jesus Christ and leave Islam, there’s no hope in Islam but with Christ Jesus there’s everlasting life awaiting. The Lord Jesus said:
John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Notice Jesus Christ says to come to Him for eternal life, only a person saves and that’s the Son of God Jesus Christ. Muslims listen to the conflicting statements from Dr. Sheikh Yasir Qadhi on the following video.
If the Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God’s revelation of himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who he is.
Should You Believe in the Trinity? pg 5
The Watchtower Society claims the doctrine of the Trinity is not “clearly and consistently presented in the Bible.” Before we prove this statement to be untrue we have to understand how the Watchtower is structured. The governing body (8 men) are the ones who call all the shots, they’re responsible for disseminating Watchtower doctrine to its members.
The everyday Jehovah Witness in my personal view are people who are sincere, but in all their zeal they are sincerely mistaken. In fact they are kept in the cult by confusion and manipulation of the scriptures. On the other hand the governing body in my opinion are deceivers and are fully aware of what they are doing. For this reason when dealing with Jehovah Witnesses I try to view the every day Witness as someone who’s lost and deceived by a group of deceivers. Therefore, a little compassion goes a long way in dealing with the JW’s at the carts.
Why are the JW’s confused about the Trinity doctrine, well first and foremost is because they’ve failed in knowing who the Lord Jesus is; if you get Christ wrong then all your doctrine will be erroneous.
Let’s go through some scriptures which lays out the Trinity doctrine. And we will aim to make it consistently clear and present it for our Jehovah Witness friends.
Is this a contradiction when God says He’s created all things alone? Well if you’re a Jehovah Witness it is because according to their theology Jesus is not God yet Jehovah used Jesus to create everything other than Himself.
Question if Jesus is a created creature as Watchtower teaches that would place Jesus in the created category with everything else besides God who is uncreated/eternal. But wait the scriptures especially Colossians 1:16 which says Jesus created all things. This means Jesus Christ can’t belong in the same category otherwise Christ would have to create Himself.
Watchtower takes Colossians 1:16 and instead of saying “all things” they altered the scripture to say “all other things” in order to fit with their own theology claiming Jesus is a created lesser god. Can you see how adding the word “other” completely changes the meaning of this text? these are just 1 of the sneaky tricks the Watchtower is known for.
This would make Jesus Christ God because He created the heavens and earth.
The Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit is God. We can determine the Holy Spirit is God in the following ways: (1) He’s called God. (2) He’s treated on an equal basis with God the Father and God the Son. (3) He has the attributes of God. (4) He does the work of God.
It certainly clear the Trinity can be seen in just these few verses and there are many more found in our Bible. This is a big dilemma for Jehovah Witnesses, and because this information is damaging to the Watchtower theology JW’s are instructed by the governing body not to research in order to keep them in the dark.
Hello it’s been a little while since our last post. We will be doing a series, examining the Brochure from the Watchtower called “Should you believe in the Trinity?” The Jehovah Witnesses are but a few groups who deny the doctrine of the Godhead/Trinity and call it satanic. It’s our endeavour to search out and see if the Trinity doctrine holds up to scrutiny or crumbles under critical observation.
1. Should You Believe It?
DO YOU believe in the Trinity? Most people in Christendom do. After all, it has been the central doctrine of the churches for centuries. In view of this, you would think that there could be no question about it. But there is, and lately even some of its supporters have added fuel to the controversy. Why should a subject like this be of any more than passing interest? Because Jesus himself said: “Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” So our entire future hinges on our knowing the true nature of God, and that means getting to the root of the Trinity controversy. Therefore, why not examine it for yourself?—John 17:3, Catholic Jerusalem Bible (JB).
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
Often Jehovah Witnesses cite verses such as John 17:3 as a “proof text” is teaching against the Godhead/Trinity but they seem to miss the context of the verse. It’s perhaps the most intimate chapter of the Bible, we get to listen in on the Lord’s High priestly prayer.
The Lord Jesus is moments away from being taken captive to be brought before Pontius Pilate and later crucified. He [Jesus Christ] lifted up his eyes to heaven and spoke of the intimate fellowship the Son has with the Father and that believers also will enjoy.
Christ says “that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” the JW immediately would say see Jesus calls the Father the only true God. They place emphasis on the Father being God alone, but they never look at the verse in its entirety. The text says the Father and the Son are the one God.
The Bible doesn’t only call the Father God it also ascribes this to the Son Jesus Christ as well. 1 John has a similar text which is speaking only of the Lord Jesus and it says:
Why don’t Jehovah Witnesses take this verse in 1 John 5:20 in context with John 17:3? The Watchtower teaches them Jesus is not God Almighty and practice Arianism a heresy the early church condemned.
Various Trinitarian concepts exist. But generally the Trinity teaching is that in the Godhead there are three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; yet, together they are but one God. The doctrine says that the three are coequal, almighty, and uncreated, having existed eternally in the Godhead.
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
The Jehovah Witnesses understanding of the Trinity is wrong, when they say they don’t believe in the Trinity they are attacking the teaching of modalism. Christians have never taught modalism to be the doctrinal teaching of the Godhead.
Notice they start by saying “Various Trinitarian concepts exist” this is not true for there is only one true doctrine of the Trinity which Trinitarians believe. Which is we believe there is one God, who exists as three co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial divine persons – Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Each one of the persons in the Godhead share the same nature which is the one nature of God. We do not believe in 3 separate gods, neither do we believe the Father at one time changed into the Son and the Son changed into the Holy Spirit.
This is not what Trinitarians believe. Trinitarians believe all 3 persons of the Godhead exist at the same time in perfect fellowship before all creation even began. We find this wonderful truth in the very beginning of our Bible.
Elohim or God is a plural word the text also mentions the Spirit of God that’s the Holy Spirit. There are many passages in the Old Testament that teaches the doctrine of the Trinity, it’s just more plainly seen in the New Testament.
אֱלֹהִיםʼĕlôhîym, el-o-heem’; plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:—angels, exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.
Outline of Biblical Usage
(plural intensive – singular meaning)
works or special possessions of God
the (true) God
Others, however, say that the Trinity doctrine is false, that Almighty God stands alone as a separate, eternal, and all-powerful being. They say that Jesus in his prehuman existence was, like the angels, a separate spirit person created by God, and for this reason he must have had a beginning. They teach that Jesus has never been Almighty God’s equal in any sense; he has always been subject to God and still is. They also believe that the holy ghost is not a person but God’s spirit, his active force.
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
In speaking of the Almighty God the book of Revelation informs us on this matter.
As we examine the verses it say “Behold, he cometh with clouds” is the Father the one coming in the clouds? Reading on it also says “every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him” every eye will see Him, are they going to see the Father? The Bible says the Father dwells in light which no man can approach. The one who’s coming was pierced, was the Father or the Son pierced? By asking these simple questions we see it can’t be speaking of the Father in Revelation 1:7-8.
The same person in Revelation 1:7-8 speaks saying “Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” We see here this individual calls Himself the Almighty, but not only that He says “which is to come” who’s coming if it’s not the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Supporters of the Trinity say that it is founded not only on religious tradition but also on the Bible. Critics of the doctrine say that it is not a Bible teaching, one history source even declaring: “The origin of the [Trinity] is entirely pagan.”—The Paganism in Our Christianity.
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
The above quote is very misleading, first it was taken by Arthur Weigall and his book called “paganism in our christianity.” Arthur is a modernist and doesn’t believe the Bible is God’s word, in his book not only does he speak against Christianity but he also speaks against the Watchtower calling their own beliefs “Angel-Christology.”
The Watchtower uses strawman arguments in their attack against the Trinity trying to assert something Christians do not believe in the first place. Christians believe in only 1 God, we don’t believe in 3 gods as Watchtower claims. Trinitarianism is monotheistic because the doctrine teaches there’s only 1 God and within the 1 God exist 3 co-eternal co-equal Person’s the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. The 3 distinct Persons are all fully God and share the one nature of God.
Jehovah Witnesses are actually not monotheist because they believe in Jehovah and reduce Jesus Christ to a lesser “godlike” angel or “a god.” This means they are actually polytheistic in their belief, more specifically Henotheism.
Henotheism is the belief of one particular God in this case “Jehovah” out of several others namely Jesus (a god) and many others. Watchtower teaches there are others who also can be called god even though they are not Jehovah God they get this from 1 Corinthians 8:5 by pulling the text out of context saying Paul the apostle taught there are many legitimate gods. This of course is not the meaning of that particular text. By reading the surrounding text we can get the true context of that verse.
1 Corinthians 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Paul was addressing the believers in Corinth that any other “god” is actual not god at all but an idol and therefore it’s nothing. When the Jehovah Witnesses claim Jesus is not God but “a god” they are placing Jesus in the category of a false God. Christians never would agree to this because we believe Christ Jesus is the Almighty God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. All 3 Persons of the Godhead are the 1 Almighty God.
Lastly, the doctrine of the Trinity/Godhead didn’t derive from pagan triads of deities. It was formulated by Christians strictly on the basis of the teachings of God’s word. The Watchtower points to Babylonian religion which was polytheistic and makes the statement that the Trinity came from such. This is of course not so, the Babylonians believed in not just 3 separate gods but a plethora of gods. Christians don’t believe in a multitude of gods we only worship 1 God.
If the Trinity is true, it is degrading to Jesus to say that he was never equal to God as part of a Godhead. But if the Trinity is false, it is degrading to Almighty God to call anyone his equal, and even worse to call Mary the “Mother of God.” If the Trinity is false, it dishonors God to say, as noted in the book Catholicism: “Unless [people] keep this Faith whole and undefiled, without doubt [they] shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
Watchtower claims it’s “degrading to Jesus” to say He was never equal to God if the Trinity is true? Christians have always believed the Lord Jesus Christ is equal to the Father because they share the same nature. The watchtower argument against the deity of Christ is that Jesus is not Jehovah but “a god.” If the Father alone is Jehovah (the true God) then what does that make Jesus if He’s not Almighty God?
Is Jesus Christ a true God or a false god? There are no other choices either Christ is the True God just as His Father is also the True God, or Jesus is an additional god who is not truly God. This brings a big problem for the Jehovah Witness theology, when they started teaching Jesus was a created being it made them have 2 God’s.
Watchtower’s teaching of Jesus is merely a created creature as opposed to being God Almighty is degrading to Jesus Christ to demote Him to an angel or “godlike one” is completely heretical on their part. The Bible tells us that the Son should receive the same honour the Father receives.
Does the Watchtower honour the Son even as the Father is honoured? According to them the Father (Jehovah) alone is to be worshipped. Yet we have abundant proof that Christ was worshipped in the scriptures.
There are good reasons, then, why you should want to know the truth about the Trinity. But before examining its origin and its claim of truthfulness, it would be helpful to define this doctrine more specifically. What, exactly, is the Trinity? How do supporters of it explain it?
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
The Watchtower consistently misrepresents the doctrine of the Trinity, they assume Christians believe the Father and Jesus Christ are the same Person. This statement couldn’t be farther from the truth, Christians have consistently believed there is only 1 God and that 1 God consist of 3 distinct Persons. Each Person of the Godhead are fully and equally God because all 3 share the same nature.
Christians reject the notion of 3 separate gods, we are not tritheist, we affirm Deuteronomy 6:4 but can’t over look the distinction between the 3 Persons of the Godhead laid out in the scriptures. If you want to know more about The Doctrine of the Trinity feel free to read our past article. Moving forward we’ll continue to examine the Watchtower’s “Should You Believe in the Trinity?”
The term “born again” refers to a new beginning in the relationship between God and the person who is born again. (John 3:3,7) God adopts those born again as his children. (Romans 8:15, 16; Galatians 4:5; 1 John 3:1) Similar to those who are legally adopted, they experience a change of status, becoming part of God’s family.—2 Corinthians 6:18.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
Jehovah Witnesses believe only a small amount of people called the “anointed class” more commonly known as the 144,000 can be born again having a heavenly hope. They pull these verses out of context from (Revelation 7:9, Revelation 14:1, 4-5) and take the number (144,000) literal yet they will also say all other references concerning them are figurative.
Does the Bible say can only a small group of 144,000 individuals be born again or is it possible that more than 144,000 people can be born again?
In John 1:12 it states “as many”, there’s no limited number here telling us only 144,000 people can only be born again. The words “as many” means an unlimited number can receive Jesus Christ. To be born again means to be made a new creature in Christ(2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 6:15), to be justified(Romans 5:1, 9, Romans 8:30, 1 Corinthians 6:11, Galatians 2:16) and reconciled to God(Romans 5:10, 2 Corinthians 5:20).
Paul the apostle touches upon teaches this truth, that Christ has only one body found in the book of Ephesians.
Seen from Ephesians 3:1-7 “That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body” this gives clarity pertaining to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ in John chapter 10. When He spoke of “other sheep” it was in revealing those “other sheep” as Gentiles, non-Jews. We know this because He was speaking concerning “this fold” meaning the Jewish people in this chapter.
Jesus said: “Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) So being born again prepares a person to rule with Christ in God’s Kingdom. This Kingdom rules from heaven, so the Bible describes the “new birth” as providing an inheritance that is “reserved in the heavens.” (1 Peter 1:3, 4) Those who are born again are given the conviction that they will “rule together as kings” with Christ.—2 Timothy 2:12; 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teaches there’s 2 classes of Christians, a small group named the “anointed class”. This special class are the only Christians who have the Holy Spirit. The other group called the “great crowd” are Christians who don’t have the Holy Spirit. These unbiblical teachings from the Watchtower are taught from Revelation 7:9 (great crowd) and Revelation 7:3,4 (144,000).
This doctrine of a 2 class system created by Joseph Franklin Rutherford in 1935, prior to his teaching the founder Charles Taze Russell taught Christians, “Jehovah Witnesses” all had a heavenly hope. Russell said the “heavenly calling” was closed, only 144,000 had been chosen by 1881. Rutherford as second president moved the date of 1881 to 1931.
The Bible shows that the “Great Crowd” are located in heaven. The current Watchtower teaches believers in Jesus Christ having two hopes this is contradictory with biblical teaching of the Other Sheep becoming “one flock” found in Ephesians.
Notice one body and one hope, one body in Christ. The Jehovah Witnesses teach there are two bodies and two hopes, the bible never teaches two hopes or classes of Christians.
How is a person born again?
When Jesus discussed the subject, he said that those born again would be “born from water and spirit.” (John 3:5) This expression refers to baptism in water followed by baptism with holy spirit.—Acts 1:5; 2:1-4.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
What was the Lord Jesus referring to when He said “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit”? If we take the Watchtower’s interpretation that being “born of water” means baptism this would contradict the rest of scripture. We read in the Bible that salvation is by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
Baptism is a command the Lord gave for those who have already been saved by trusting in Christ. Baptism was not given as a means of salvation. The mention of water can refer to the Word of God (Ephesians 5:25, 26, 1 Peter 1:23, James 1:18). This can also refer to the Holy Spirit who is often a likened to water (John 7:38, 39), we also remember the Lord speaking of rivers of living water.
The Watchtower completely misunderstands and misapplies John 3:5 teaching a works based salvation.
Jesus was the first person to be born again. He was baptized in the Jordan River, after which God anointed (or, baptized) him with holy spirit. Jesus was thus born again as a spiritual son of God with the hope of returning to life in heaven. (Mark 1:9-11) God fulfilled this hope by resurrecting Jesus as a spirit creature.—Acts 13:33.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
The Lord Jesus DID NOT have to be born again because He’s sinless, undefiled and separate from sinners (Hebrews 7:26). Only sinners need to be born again so why did Jesus Christ get baptized by John the Baptist? The Lord tells us why it was to fulfill all righteousness.
This was done by the Lord to fulfill all that the Old Testament and New Testament saints did in accordance to God’s word. For instance the Bible in the Old Testament speaks of sprinkling when it came to blood or anointing with oil etc.
The Lord by being baptized was confirming all which was done back then all the way to present and future acts such as baptism by immersion. This was the real meaning behind Jesus being baptised.
Notice what the Watchtower says here “with the hope of returning to life in heaven” yes the Lord did return to heaven but they won’t tellyou that they believe Jesus returned as “Michael the arc-angel” Jehovah Witnesses do not believe Jesus is a real man in heaven but and angel.
Another very important fact to point out is this “God fulfilled this hope by resurrecting Jesus as a spirit creature.” The Jehovah Witnesses deny the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is very serious to deny the bodily resurrection is a salvific problem. Anyone who denies the physical body resurrection of Jesus Christ cannot have salvation.
The Christian faith hinges on the resurrection of Christ if the resurrection never happened then everything else falls our hope would be in vain.
This is why no one involved in a non-Christian cult can be saved; world religions for that matter as well. Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and others deny Jesus Christ in many ways especially the resurrection. With the JW’s they say Jesus body was disintegrated and He rose as a “spirit creature.” Jesus didn’t rise from the dead in the same body which was on the cross. Very dangerous for those who reject the resurrection.
Jesus Christ rose bodily all you need to prove this is see that the Lord had His disciples to touch the wounds in His body, He also ate food with them. If He was not raised in the same body then He would not have wounds, additionally a spirit would not as for food to eat and continue to ingest food before them. Lastly He told them He’s not a spirit but that He does indeed have flesh and bone.
Yet the Jehovah Witnesses will believe the Watchtower’s teaching over what the Bible says.
Others who are born again are also baptized in water before they receive the holy spirit. (Acts 2:38, 41) They then have the sure hope of life in heaven, which God will fulfill in the resurrection.—1 Corinthians 15:42-49.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
It’s obvious by this quote from the Watchtower they don’t understand that a Christian is saved first and given the Holy Spirit at the point of salvation. Afterwards then is the believer baptised to signify that they have died with Christ and are raised in newness of life.
Baptism doesn’t save anyone on Jesus Christ saves, people received the Holy Spirit in the Bible before baptism. Read Acts chapter 10 and you’ll see that Cornelius was given the Holy Spirit before he was baptised.
Misconceptions about being born again
Misconception: A person must be born again to gain salvation or to be a Christian. Fact: Christ’s sacrifice provides salvation not only for those who are born again as the ones who will rule with Christ in heaven but also for the earthly subjects of God’s Kingdom. (1 John 2:1, 2; Revelation 5:9, 10) That second group of Christians have the opportunity to live forever in Paradise on earth.—Psalm 37:29; Matthew 6:9, 10; Revelation 21:1-5.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
The Watchtower teaches it’s a “Misconception” that an individual must be born again. Again we see the great damage being done by cults they undermine the very words of the Lord Jesus, distorting the Bible thereby deceiving its members in this case Jehovah Witnesses who aren’t allowed to research outside of the societies publications.
The Lord Jesus told Nicodemus “you must be born again.” How can a group which claims to believe in the Bible contradict it so much?
Please note what the Watchtower says here “Christ’s sacrifice provides salvation not only for those who are born again as the ones who will rule with Christ in heaven but also for the earthly subjects of God’s Kingdom.” The Watchtower teaches a 2 class system, they believe there’s a small group of anointed Christians who will live in heaven and a larger group which will live on earth who aren’t anointed.
Nowhere will you find this doctrine in the Bible, the “2 class system” was invented by Joseph Rutherford 1935.
The Bible specifically tells us there’s one body (Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13, 20, Ephesians 2:16, Ephesians 4:4, Colossians 3:15) and one hope (Ephesians 4:4). How is it then the Jehovah Witnesses have two bodies with two hopes? The doctrines of the Watchtower are erroneous to say the least. Lastly you will not find the phrase “paradise earth” anywhere in the Bible.
Misconception: A person can choose to be born again. Fact: The opportunity to have a relationship with God and gain salvation is open to all. (1 Timothy 2:3, 4; James 4:8) However, God chooses those who will be born again, or anointed with holy spirit. According to the Bible, being born again “depends, not on a person’s desire or on his effort, but on God.” (Romans 9:16) The expression “born again” can also be rendered “born from above,” confirming that the selection of those who are born again comes “from above,” or from God.—John 3:3, footnote.
What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? Bible Questions Answered
Another misunderstanding the Watchtower makes is that God chooses some to be born again, while God chooses others not to be born again yet somehow these individuals who are not born again are Christians. They would lead the reader to believe Christians are teaching anyone “can choose to be born again.”
This is far from the truth, Christianity teaches that God draws the guilty sinner and at the point of conversion the individual is sealed by the Holy Spirit indwelling the new believer. No where will you find in the Bible a person who is a believer in Jesus Christ but yet not born again.
The Watchtower is caught between a rock and a hard place. A core teaching for witnesses is that only 144,000 people will enter heaven. And they will rule as kings with Jesus. This number is based on misinterpretation of Revelation 7 and 14, and proven untrue by Watchtower’s own numbers of those who partake of the emblems during the “memorial”.
Watchtower would have people believe that since the 1st century Christians on the day of Pentecost till 1935 those who would be called to be part of the 144,000 has “closed.” Does the Watchtower expect us to believe the that number 144,000 was not reached before the Society was even formed?
On the day of Pentecost we’re told three thousand souls were saved after the apostle Peter preached Christ to the people (Acts 2:41). In Acts chapter 4 we have the apostles Peter and John going into the temple again they preached Christ crucified and five thousand people believed (Acts 4:4). Afterwards we’re not given the number of converts but we see how fast the Church was growing.
In Acts 5 we have another multitude of people who believed in the Lord Jesus and added to the church.
This is the theme of the book of Acts so thousands of people were saved in the 1st century alone. Is it logical to believe that the number 144,000 wouldn’t be reached way before 1935 when the Watchtower claims “the heavenly calling was closed?”
In the year 95 A.D. 40,000 Christians are said to have been martyred alone. We can conclude that the number 144,000 would have been quickly reached way before Charles Taze Russell came and formed the Watchtower. There is not a two class group of Christians, the Bible tells us that there’s One Body and One Hope. All believers in Christ are anointed and heaven bound.
We hope and pray that if you’re a Jehovah Witness you’ll research the history of the Watchtower Society outside of their own publications if you’d like to know the true history, because the Watchtower has whitewashed their own history to hide the facts from you.